Just a little heads up for those planning on taking the MBTA Red line

jessica · Post by **jessica** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:31 pm

This is just a bit of a warning for those cosplayers with large costumes and/or lots of luggage heading into AB 09.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaki ... perim.html

Even though it says it's experimental, it could possibly be for good.

Post by **Mosquito1945** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:25 pm

Very interesting. It will be interesting to see how this is received. I think I rather like the idea of not having seats.

For now, this is just going at rush-hour. As a cosplayer, (especially with fragile costumes and props) generally, you want to avoid travelling at those times anyway if at all possible. Fortunately this year, we're going Memorial Day weekend, so traffic might be a bit lower than usual.

haruka108 · Post by **haruka108** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:08 pm

they should look into japanese trains... they have flip seats and middle poles for ppl to hold onto... looking at the picture from the link, i wonder how ppl are going to not fall if they were forced to stand in the middle of the train...

jessica · Post by **jessica** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:14 pm

[quote=haruka108]looking at the picture from the link, i wonder how ppl are going to not fall if they were forced to stand in the middle of the train...[/quote]

And how they're going to stop the gropage of women. It's bad enough with the seats....

KitKat · Post by **KitKat** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:16 am

Oh god, oh god. This is completely horrible for me.
I'm completely Claustrophobic(Elevators, crowded trains, someone else driving, etc etc etc), but I can't drive in Boston to save my life. (Walking I know how to get EVERYWHERE, but driving takes triple the time it should for me cause I get lost.)
I'm usually okay right now on the red line, at rush hour I either nab the handicap wheelchair spot and have a friend or two block for me to get me some breathing space, or sit in one of the seats with my head between my legs.
If I end up in one of these cars getting there or going home when it's crowded, I'll probably hyperventalate (at least) or pass out, hit my head, and have to be taken to the hospital (thats at least the worst reaction I've had.)
Maybe I should just get someone who knows their way around to drop me off and pick me up.

I take the red line a lot, so it might not be as bad as I fear- but I'll have to wait and see. o.o

Eimi · Post by **Eimi** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:55 am

[quote=KitKat]Oh god, oh god. This is completely horrible for me.
I'm completely Claustrophobic(Elevators, crowded trains, someone else driving, etc etc etc), but I can't drive in Boston to save my life. (Walking I know how to get EVERYWHERE, but driving takes triple the time it should for me cause I get lost.)
I'm usually okay right now on the red line, at rush hour I either nab the handicap wheelchair spot and have a friend or two block for me to get me some breathing space, or sit in one of the seats with my head between my legs.
If I end up in one of these cars getting there or going home when it's crowded, I'll probably hyperventalate (at least) or pass out, hit my head, and have to be taken to the hospital (thats at least the worst reaction I've had.)
Maybe I should just get someone who knows their way around to drop me off and pick me up.

I take the red line a lot, so it might not be as bad as I fear- but I'll have to wait and see. o.o[/quote]

I believe on the news they said it would only be the two middle cars on each train, so just avoid those.

haruka108 · Post by **haruka108** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:22 pm

[quote=jessica][quote=haruka108]looking at the picture from the link, i wonder how ppl are going to not fall if they were forced to stand in the middle of the train...[/quote]

And how they're going to stop the gropage of women. It's bad enough with the seats....
[/quote]

women-only train?

jessica · Post by **jessica** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:11 pm

[quote=haruka108]
women-only train?[/quote]

It's a good idea, but it's really not likely. Especially since you rarely see any MBTA officials on the platform.

haruka108 · Post by **haruka108** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:54 am

[quote=jessica]It's a good idea, but it's really not likely. Especially since you rarely see any MBTA officials on the platform.
[/quote]

yea, practically no one works at stations

KitKat · Post by **KitKat** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:58 am

[quote=Eimi][quote=KitKat]Oh god, oh god. This is completely horrible for me.
I'm completely Claustrophobic(Elevators, crowded trains, someone else driving, etc etc etc), but I can't drive in Boston to save my life. (Walking I know how to get EVERYWHERE, but driving takes triple the time it should for me cause I get lost.)
I'm usually okay right now on the red line, at rush hour I either nab the handicap wheelchair spot and have a friend or two block for me to get me some breathing space, or sit in one of the seats with my head between my legs.
If I end up in one of these cars getting there or going home when it's crowded, I'll probably hyperventalate (at least) or pass out, hit my head, and have to be taken to the hospital (thats at least the worst reaction I've had.)
Maybe I should just get someone who knows their way around to drop me off and pick me up.

I take the red line a lot, so it might not be as bad as I fear- but I'll have to wait and see. o.o[/quote]

I believe on the news they said it would only be the two middle cars on each train, so just avoid those.
[/quote]

Yes, but how many people are going to be trying to not be in the standing-only cars? That's my real worry, it'll make the seated cars MORE crowded and that's not a good situation for me either. Like I said, I guess I'll have to wait and see.

jessica · Post by **jessica** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:41 pm

[quote=KitKat]

Yes, but how many people are going to be trying to not be in the standing-only cars? That's my real worry, it'll make the seated cars MORE crowded and that's not a good situation for me either. Like I said, I guess I'll have to wait and see.
[/quote]

That is true, I didn't even think of that. Not to mention Bostonians aren't nice about seats on the T. I can't even begin to count how many elderly people and pregnant women I've seen that nobody's gave their seat to. (Even the seats you're supposed to give up.)

Zigfried · Post by **Zigfried** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:35 pm

If reaction is really this negative to these trains, then the MBTA will take them out of circulation and install seats in due time. They said they're doing an 'experiment' and are surveying people about their experiences so just voice your displeasure and they're sure to do something about it.

Then again, they did already spend a whole wad of cash on these new cars, so don't expect them to be just thrown out...

Nosut · Post by **Nosut** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:01 am

Ummmm....so that means everyone avoids the train with no seats? ok well you will find me on the train sitting on the ground with lots of room! lol. Its normal to think that most people will avoid it so why not try it? So why avoid it if it will have less people in it? Also with less seats and less people in it the train will seem a lot more spacious the the normal seated ones wouldnt it?
the red line at longest is what? maybe an hour? thats nothing compaired to the lines anyways.

Misakochan · Post by **Misakochan** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:11 pm

haha, they'll just paint the lines orange and stick them on the orange line instead, though I don't think enough people take orange for it to matter or for people to complain haha

Fetch · Post by **Fetch** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:40 pm

Nope. If it don't work on the Red, they'll send those cars to the Blue line, where the tourists coming from the airport don't know any better.

jessica · Post by **jessica** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:28 am

[quote=Fetch]Nope. If it don't work on the Red, they'll send those cars to the Blue line, where the tourists coming from the airport don't know any better.[/quote]

If it "don't" work on the red, it's not going to work at all and they're going to stop it completely. They said it.

Heartswyrd · Post by **Heartswyrd** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:53 am

I've been to Boston several times over the past few months, and I always end up in front of the door or on the stairs anyways. So seats or not, its the same to me, but I see the ones without seats just having more room for those that are getting on and right off again. I'm not a bostonian and there aren't subways around where I live, so I suppose those who regularly travel them would hold the best opion. Just think positive about it, and maybe it wont be so bad. ^^

The trains I worry about are the ones that go to street level that have the steps down into the center of the car.

I had a broken foot and my friend had my crutches. After I paid I started walking to the middle and as soon as I hit the stairs the train took off. My doctor was not too happy about the new swelling from stumbling down those steps. :p

jnik · Post by **jnik** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:22 pm

[quote=Fetch]Nope. If it don't work on the Red, they'll send those cars to the Blue line, where the tourists coming from the airport don't know any better.[/quote]
Blue line and red line rolling stock aren't compatible.

Misakochan · Post by **Misakochan** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:13 pm

[quote=Heartswyrd]I've been to Boston several times over the past few months, and I always end up in front of the door or on the stairs anyways. So seats or not, its the same to me, but I see the ones without seats just having more room for those that are getting on and right off again. I'm not a bostonian and there aren't subways around where I live, so I suppose those who regularly travel them would hold the best opion. Just think positive about it, and maybe it wont be so bad. ^^

The trains I worry about are the ones that go to street level that have the steps down into the center of the car. [/quote]

That's how it is on the green line and people get on and off so often I think no seats would be very useful, especially since those cars are already very narrow, but on the red... people travel that further and most people have a ton of shopping bags or baby carriages etc.
I can see how maybe during rush hour it -could- help, but I feel like the red line wasn't the one to try it on, and there needs to be more center poles for people to hold onto... I'm short and can't reach the poles across the ceiling and the hanging loops don't support you at all =( I usually just hold on to my boyfriend hahaha

Zigfried · Post by **Zigfried** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:50 pm

Also, AB is still a healthy 5-6 months away. Given the almost unanimous negative reaction to these cars, I would be shocked if they stayed in circulation until the con comes around.

LadyHawke · Post by **LadyHawke** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:45 pm

Wow. This is brilliant.
I am so used to NOT sitting when I use mass-transit, be it in Boston, New York, Philly or wherever.) I think people will be able to get used to this.

Honestly, I cannot recall sitting EVER when catching an outbound train on either the gren or red lines... not, at least, until it gets quite a few stops outside of Boston (usually get off the D line around Brookline, Newton Center or Woodland.)

Yes. I am a proud Charlie-Card carrier, even though I live in FREAKIN' PENNSYLVANIA. (Try and figure that one out... it'll blow your mind.)

Post by **Jennachan** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:17 pm

[quote=ladyhawke78]

Honestly, I cannot recall sitting EVER when catching an outbound train on either the gren or red lines[/quote]

I can recall you sitting once on the green line! lol Of course its not like we went all that far.

But I'm all for this idea. I think people that ride the red line the most will be in agreement since 90% of them don't ever get to sit down anyways during rush time. With it being only 2 cars on the middle of a train, I think its perfect. Quite honestly, as said, if your that concerned about it, take any of the several other cars on that train and you can fight for a seat as normal.

destro · Post by **destro** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:34 pm

[quote=jessica]This is just a bit of a warning for those cosplayers with large costumes and/or lots of luggage heading into AB 09.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaki ... perim.html

Even though it says it's experimental, it could possibly be for good.[/quote]
I think this is one of the stupidest ideas for the T. Im imagining it would be tough for people with disabilities and back pain problems. Not to mention pregnant women. Although I'm a guy and never will have any knowledge of what it feels like to be pregnant I assume it must be tough to carry that weight around with you 24/7 and getting a moment to sit down must be a wonderful feeling. And time on the T should be a moment for pregnant women to take advantage of that.

Zigfried · Post by **Zigfried** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:56 am

Considering that the first batch of surveys received back from riders on these new, seatless cars were 2:1 positive, expect them to stick around for a lot longer. I wouldn't be surprised (and unpleased) to see these cars expanded to other lines such as the Green, where you have a greater chance at winning the lottery than getting a seat during rush hour.

Post by **Jennachan** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:41 am

[quote=Destro]
I think this is one of the stupidest ideas for the T. Im imagining it would be tough for people with disabilities and back pain problems.[/quote]

Again, as mentioned only 2 of the cars will be seatless. That leave 5+ cars that still have seats running on the same train. Its just as easy for someone with any problem to get on one of the many seated cars where they can fight for seats there. This plan is in action in order to move many people during a very congested time on the T.

BlackSunRising · Post by **BlackSunRising** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:27 am

[quote=Destro][quote=jessica]This is just a bit of a warning for those cosplayers with large costumes and/or lots of luggage heading into AB 09.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaki ... perim.html

Even though it says it's experimental, it could possibly be for good.[/quote]
I think this is one of the stupidest ideas for the T. Im imagining it would be tough for people with disabilities and back pain problems. Not to mention pregnant women. Although I'm a guy and never will have any knowledge of what it feels like to be pregnant I assume it must be tough to carry that weight around with you 24/7 and getting a moment to sit down must be a wonderful feeling. And time on the T should be a moment for pregnant women to take advantage of that.[/quote]

I disagree. I have nerve spasms/muscle deterioration in my spine and I think some cars with standing-room only is a good idea. I've been in subway stations and terminals where standing room was a small price to pay for not having to wait for the next train. And the bit about the pregnant women - I'm sure the MTBA has considered what would happen if such a situation were to arise, which resulted in the '2 or 3 cars standing room" compromise, rather than face the stigma of discrimination.

Fetch · Post by **Fetch** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:58 pm

[quote=My_Wayward_Son]Considering that the first batch of surveys received back from riders on these new, seatless cars were 2:1 positive, expect them to stick around for a lot longer. I wouldn't be surprised (and unpleased) to see these cars expanded to other lines such as the Green, where you have a greater chance at winning the lottery than getting a seat during rush hour.[/quote]

The green line cars have always been designed more for standing then sitting. The seats on the Green are pretty much for little kids and the elderly.

Oh, and you can blame New York for this whole 'no seats in some cars during rush hour' deal. (that's what it said in the original Boston Herald article)

Zigfried · Post by **Zigfried** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:42 am

I've always seen the green line cars designed rather against their purpose. The cars are thinner than most other lines and the newer cars have an elevated section in the middle. I don't know if that helps with above street travel, but it does give standing passengers one more obstacle to deal with along with the heavy crowds unwilling to move as they sit on the stairs.

jnik · Post by **jnik** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:59 am

[quote=My_Wayward_Son] The cars are thinner than most other lines[/quote]
...in order to fit in the tunnels.

[quote]and the newer cars have an elevated section in the middle.[/quote]
Er, at the ends. The middle is low-floor for handicap accessability. The ends are high to fit stuff like wheels.

Zigfried · Post by **Zigfried** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:34 pm

Every line has to fit in tunnels. The Green line, however, fits through tunnels constructed the same way as every other line with thinner cars.

Fetch · Post by **Fetch** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:07 pm

One has to remember that the Green line was originally horse powered. The railcars were small on purpose. After mechanization, it was easier to keep the railcars smaller than to widen the tunnel.
Also, since the Green line goes along the surface in the middle of streets, it has to be no bigger than a car lane.

Red, Blue, and Orange were all created post mechanization, so they were designed with large tunnels. Also, the times that they are above ground, they are in 'canyons' or away from streets.

Post by **Jennachan** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:15 pm

[quote=My_Wayward_Son]Every line has to fit in tunnels. The Green line, however, fits through tunnels constructed the same way as every other line with thinner cars.[/quote]

Erm, the green line has its own tunnels, which are in fact, smaller then a tunnel for say, a red line train. Hence, a larger red line car, would not fit in a green line tunnel.

Telos · Post by **Telos** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:53 pm

Moo!

MBTA resorting to cattle cars. That's terrible!

Phantom 1 · Post by **Phantom 1** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:01 pm

NOOOOOOOOOOO! Where will the homeless people sleep now?

Seriously though, this is at best, Gropefest '09, at worst a safety hazard.

Besides, isn't this all moot considering both the Hynes and the Sheraton are on the Green Line?

Fetch · Post by **Fetch** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:51 am

[quote=Phantom 1]NOOOOOOOOOOO! Where will the homeless people sleep now?

Seriously though, this is at best, Gropefest '09, at worst a safety hazard.

Besides, isn't this all moot considering both the Hynes and the Sheraton are on the Green Line?[/quote]

You are correct. However, for people coming in to Boston by Amtrack or Greyhound from south of Boston, they have to ride the red line for 2 stops from South Station to Park Place.
Of course, the BIG RED cars are only used during the rush hours and are clearly marked. (BIG RED right next to the door of the train) And so are avoidable.

Art Wolf · Post by **Art Wolf** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:58 am

[quote=Fetch]Of course, the BIG RED cars are only used during the rush hours and are clearly marked.[/quote]

Aye - and so handy during rush hour!

IonAurora · Post by **IonAurora** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:54 pm

Luckily we'll be taking the Green Line.

Interesting, though.

Darkend · Post by **Darkend** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:44 am

Beverly Station to North Station FTW.
Walk out the door, take the sub to Hynes, and bam, right there. no "Big Red" shenanigens, just easy riding