Include membership Badges for artists alley

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spoonfulofcats
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Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by spoonfulofcats »

This is been something that has been on my mind since I've started attending Anime Boston AA.

The issue of having to pay an additional $40-55 for a badge for the convention itself.

I have never understood the point of this as the majority of artists remain within the artists alley during the span of the convention, only leaving for food or the bathroom. If we leave to check out the dealers room or see a panel, there is a miracle of some sort at work XD.

It is simply a waste of our money to pay money for a badge that normal attendees do when we aren't normal attendees. We don't have the luxury of going to unlimited amounts of panels and spending the entire weekend in the dealers room.

Not to mention now artists are required to have an EIN, which if you are a business you should consider getting anyways, but for people that are just starting out, getting their feet wet, or want to to experience the thrills of artist alley this is probably something that adds to the pile of 'Daunting'.

It's upsetting to be required to pay money for the membership badge when it should be included with the table price, which is already high and always increasing. I was especially surprised that a membership badge wasn't even offered with the professional table at a whopping $300 or with the mascot contest where you're essentially getting free artwork to advertise for the convention.

If I were to get a pro table, which even after I've been established for 3 years I'm not sure I would for whats currently offered. There would have to be a lot more benefits for the additional $160(if we go by last years table prices, and I'm correct lol). For instance, Electricity, and prime locations should automatically be offered. Saying "More likely to receive prime table locations" is like saying "Well..for all that money you pay, we'll try but who knows!" Of course you can't guarantee how the flow of the convention will be but you can take steps to guarantee the flow will start in this area. Create a banner or large sign visibly seen by people just entering the Artist Alley that lets them know "Professional Artists Row" to create enticement and curiosity.
Table clothes should be offered. Not only is 8 feet a large space to cover, for that extra charge offering table covers should be included.
It's the little amenities that go a long way to making an artist feel appreciated and that their money spent was worthwhile.

I've been putting off bringing up this issue because in the back of my head of I've been afraid it would hurt my relations with the convention in some way.
I feel the day Anime Boston makes this change, the day us artists can really feel respected for the time and work we put into this convention.
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by Tuberat »

Hi
Thank you for your concerns. I will address them one by one.

Badges:
the day that anime boston makes this change of not requiring artists to buy badges, is the day that Anime Boston finally says "oh yeah, Didn't Nikki try to get us to do that back in 2005?" - which I did - and for the exact same reasons. Now I'm not saying they are wrong, or they are right, but that I understand what you're getting at.

however, Anime Boston is NOT the only show that does this. in fact, if they ever DID take away that requirement, they'd be the only (or maybe among the only - i haven't exactly tried a wide variety of shows outside of anime cons) con that did so. This is pretty much standard practice.

Thirdly, just because you or I don't get out to see the con does NOT mean other people do not. I know many AA participants that Do go to plenty of events, shutting up their tables for a few hours each day OR finding assistants to cover their tables while they are gone. So then it becomes what AB is probably afraid of - a logistical nightmare trying to keep track of who belongs where! Because now you would have artists that did not pay for the event itself, going out to enjoy the event itself.

I have done what I could do to make things easier for artists when it came to badges as I am an artist myself and I have that perspective to keep in mind. Since I came aboard:
    1. - The cost of a badge for the person signing up for AA does NOT go up when table finalization happens if there is ever a delay for payment of tables (which has happened!!!). Of course, this does not take into account your assistants or fellow artists at your table, but it still helps a little.
    • - The ability to decide ON YOUR OWN whether or not you want to pre buy or buy it along with your table. I've gone to a con where i wanted 6 feet of space and I was FORCED to buy 2 badges for it. I basically bought a second badge that sat at my table and did NOTHING. Because all of my friends already had badges. And the con didn't care. I had to shell out the extra cost and didn't even use it.
Taxes/EIN
OH yeah. this is daunting. a pain in the but. Scary. Annoying as all H***. And I'd Love to get rid of it.
However, Anime Boston has NO CHOICE about this. This is MA Law. I don't get what you expect us to do about this?

We've provided a lot of information - and given it it's own page so it didn't get lost! We've given direct links to everything. We didn't just say - this is required, you're on your own. and we found last year that the DOR was actually quite helpful whenever anyone had to call them. We even delayed final payments last year so that people who were unwilling to deal with this issue at all could back out without having the hassle of needing to get refunds - especially when I'm not allowed to give out refunds for any badges that are issued - which at least 50 people took advantage of last year.

Pro Row Tables (and increasing costs)
Table costs are increasing for a reason. We have over 500 people trying to get into 140 spaces. We cannot keep up with demand. But we have done what we can to keep the standard table costs from increasing overly much. There are shows where the regular prices of a table is upwards of 300 dollars - with nothing but 2 additional badges included. If i do that math, we are still cheaper by 60 dollars if someone buys an 8 foot table at standard prices and gets 2 badges before the prices go up. And there are a lot of cons that don't even give you 8 feet as an option! And other cons that don't even tell you what size you're paying for at all!

PRO ROW is a specialty case. we WANT Pro Row to be daunting. Because its only for certain kinds of artists - not newbies, not hobbyists. Therefore we cannot include the badges, because the price hike is MEANT to be "are you serious about this? okay, go for it." Also, most Pros already have their own tablecloths because it lends their own touch to the table. So at this point, a tablecloth amenity that AB gets charged extra for really doesn't matter. Pro Row is ALSO an experiment as we learn whether it is worth it or not or if it needs to be adjusted.

As for more likelihood at prime locations. I argued about that even being in there.
First off - I could not say they would get prime locations because the following people will be there first:
    1. Official Convention Artist
    • Last years Auction Winner
    • This years Yokai Contest Winner
    • All the Featured Artists - between 3- 5 additional artists
    • Any Guest Relations Artists that get given to us.
That's a list of 7 - 10 artists who have already gotten there first!

Because of this, I was unwilling to promise something I didn't know if I would have!!! I would give them the best spaces I could, within their requests if they have any. And because they'd be at the head of the list from being pro row, they'd get them - but maybe not the exact one they wanted because the Auction Winner got it first. they'd still be ahead of 300 other artists (I say 300 instead of 140 because, with the high costs, people do what *I* did when I first started testing the waters - I shared my table space to keep costs down. And by sharing the space, you now also have a built in assistant.)

In conclusion:

I hope that satisfies your questions about why we have done what we have done. I'm sorry you feel you don't feel respected and that I (or AB) have done exactly NOTHING for you. While I usually have my share of people getting mad at me for the AB system - these are people who usually didn't get in at all. I've had almost no complaints else wise about the way things have been run, and most at con complaints are things beyond my power or are about things that I need to take care of because of rule breaking.

I have tried to make sure all information is out there and in a timely manner. not something all cons do.
I have tried to make the sign up process as easy as possible ( a hard task with this many people trying to get in) and not something arbitrary or ruled by 'favoritism' or capable of leading to overbooking (has happened!).
I have tried to accommodate all kinds of artists/crafters at whatever level they be at - from newbie to pro. AND NOT kicked anyone out because they were a crafter instead of the traditional 2D artist AA's were originally for (which, btw, was also not to make money directly - it was for networking).
I have announced when our sign up dates will be - with plenty of warning time to make plans or alternative arrangements. Something that used to get me very mad about other cons that would put it up quietly and no one ever knew until it was already too late.
I have tried to be as communicative as possible with things Artists need to know as they get ready for the con they've paid for. Something that again, is not always available at other cons.

And Much Much more I have tried to do to make the con an easy and enjoyable experience. Based on my own experiences as an artist at many cons for the 12 years...I agree VERY MUCH with you that is IS the little amenities that go a long way. And I strive for that, because I may be staff, but I'm also an artist at heart.

I'm still trying to figure out how we've managed to keep the 2 dozen donuts for the early birds every morning of the con in the budget every year since our 3rd year.....but I'm not arguing it! And glad I have them. I don't know any other con that does that. I quite enjoy it.
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by Kogarashi »

I can't speak for much of this because a lot of it sounds like it requires a staffer's input (and Nikki has already covered that), but I would like to address the cost of Pro Row and the issue of tablecloths from an attending artist's perspective.

First, for Pro Row...I've been doing Alleys for almost ten years now, and still don't feel "professional" enough to try out for Pro Row. But I can understand why it's there. Many were the times where I heard other artists discussion how they'd be willing to pay much steeper fees if it meant they were guaranteed a space. Just look at how much the guaranteed table goes for in the auction each year, and that doesn't come with a badge either (last I checked). Pro Row isn't for me; my profits just aren't high enough. But I'm sure there are others it's perfect for.

As for tablecloths, what Nikki said there goes as well. Lots of established artists bring their own distinctive tablecloths anyway. I know I do. It's one way to set your space apart from all the others that have the same wire cubes or PVC framework. Even at cons that provide table cloths, I put mine over it. And frankly, I wouldn't want to have to pay more to accommodate the extra fees the Hynes charges the con for tablecloths, when I can just as easily grab one from home or pick up a few yards of fabric at the store or something and have a personalized table cover.

Also, Nikki mentioned that some artists do get out into the con. My assistant has gone to panels before. She and I both go wander the dealer's room. I've had neighbors who were in the Masquerade or shut down early to attend the concert or run a panel. Just because I spend most of my time at the con actually in the Alley doesn't mean every other artist does as well, and as Nikki said, the logistics of figuring out who paid to go to the other events and who didn't would be a huge hassle.

Did someone say donuts?
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by Tuberat »

correct, the auction winner does NOT get a badge.
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by spoonfulofcats »

First of all, let me thank you Nikki for taking the time to read my entire post and comment back with thorough answers. I didn't mean for my post to go so long..

When I made this post I wish I clarified that my frustrations were in no way directed at you and how you manage the artists alley, as I figured it had to do with the higher ups that made the call. Out of the handful of conventions I go to, Anime Boston is managed the best out of all of them. It's the biggest convention I sell art at but all the little/big things you do add up to making everything a smooth process. I think just about all the artists could agree with me. At least I hope they would. I can't begin to say how much I love the new website and how we have our own section with plentiful and helpful links to everything art related!
EDIT:...and you can change your username for the forums instead of having to create a new one or something!!! So many problems solved!

I wasn't selling art back in 2005, but it makes me feel a lot better that you feel the same way and made the effort. I wonder since Anime Boston has grown so much, if they would compromise with the artist alley in including membership, but only for the artist(1 badge) seeing as assistants often do watch some artist's table for hours on end. I wouldn't want artists or their assistants to take advantage of that generosity if they gave their assistants that discount as well.

I understand now, the dilemma with pro row. I didn't realize/consider the artists you mentioned in the list would be there first and this now makes sense to me. :)

So I guess my question now would be, what can we the artists do to try to make this change(including just 1 badge for just the artist)? Do we need to create a petition? Write a friendly-formal email/letter? Is there some way that we can help you as well make this happen?
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by pulsedemon »

You're already talking to Nikki and she's the best one to make the case most successfully. ;)
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by SailorAstera »

But if she's been trying since '05 I don't think it's going to change ;D

Of course, getting one con badge with a table would be awesome. I certainly wouldn't complain. But it's getting someone to give up revenue and I'm sure that's difficult.
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by Tuberat »

very true...on both christians and sakky's points.
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by basharoftheages »

/uninvolved party

Only offer it for the person who's name is on the table, and meet in the middle price-wise so you can at least save people the hassle of the prereg process.

Less than 1% of total attendee count isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by SailorAstera »

Oh, I do love a compromise ;D
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by KitsuneCreations »

I agree that one table should equate to 1 badge included, for the artist. I do not agree with badges for assistants. You could even raise the price of tables slightly, and include 1 badge in the process. Or, keep the prices the same, and give artists at least a DISCOUNT for the badge. More than what we get now.. The way I see it, we make up a huge part of this convention, as we are an attraction that entertains the con till 10:30 pm every night and in general the artists spend most of their time at their table. Not sure if this will ever change, but its definitely a change that I support, as long as its done fair for the artists and the convention.

And of course, I think everyone can agree the AB Artist Alley is one of the BEST run Artist Alleys, in terms of organization. I'm in no way complaining about how things run, just throwing in my 2 cents about including an artist badge in the price of the table :)
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by SailorAstera »

It's pretty much the only thing left that I could possibly not like. xD
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by spoonfulofcats »

It's reassuring to see a lot of fellow artists feel the same way on this topic.

It would be simply amazing/great if Anime Boston made this change for us. I would just like to know what the next step(s) are from here? If we as the artists need to do something on our end other then make forum threads and comment in it.
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by Kogarashi »

Color me curious, but what would including the badge memberships (assuming a slight price markup to cover it) do for us that the current system (getting the cheapest pre-reg price when we pay for our table regardless of when it is) doesn't? Maybe I'm just missing something here.

As it stands, and without understanding what the difference is besides having one all-in-one badge instead of two, I'm fine with the current system. After all, Nikki has swung it so that the artist gets to pay the cheapest pre-reg price when they pay for their table, and my assistant and I have her pre-reg right away once I've gotten that e-mail from Nikki letting me know I definitely have a space in the Alley. :shrug:
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by spoonfulofcats »

Kogarashi wrote:Color me curious, but what would including the badge memberships (assuming a slight price markup to cover it) do for us that the current system (getting the cheapest pre-reg price when we pay for our table regardless of when it is) doesn't? Maybe I'm just missing something here.

As it stands, and without understanding what the difference is besides having one all-in-one badge instead of two, I'm fine with the current system. After all, Nikki has swung it so that the artist gets to pay the cheapest pre-reg price when they pay for their table, and my assistant and I have her pre-reg right away once I've gotten that e-mail from Nikki letting me know I definitely have a space in the Alley. :shrug:

I'm a little confused as to why your confused, haha. I don't know if you read my post or previous ones.

Including one badge for the artist with the artist alley table would do a great deal of help for artists for obvious reasons. The main one being that it would save us $50(as it looks like registration went up this year which is to be expected) to buy a membership badge which I believe the majority of us don't even need/use since were at our tables 24/7.

I brought taxes into it earlier because I think it's less likely that artists are going to go through the trouble of registering themselves as a sole proprietor/business just to be gone from their table the majority of the time and deal with tax responsibilities later down the road. People keep bringing up the issue that a lot of people aren't at their table, but considering you have to have an EIN to even register, you have to put a little more thought into whether you really want to register or not. I don't know about the rest of the artists but I for one am at my table the majority of the time and to have to pay for a membership badge which I don't even use is a waste of money.
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by Kogarashi »

spoonfulofcats wrote:
Kogarashi wrote:Color me curious, but what would including the badge memberships (assuming a slight price markup to cover it) do for us that the current system (getting the cheapest pre-reg price when we pay for our table regardless of when it is) doesn't? Maybe I'm just missing something here.

As it stands, and without understanding what the difference is besides having one all-in-one badge instead of two, I'm fine with the current system. After all, Nikki has swung it so that the artist gets to pay the cheapest pre-reg price when they pay for their table, and my assistant and I have her pre-reg right away once I've gotten that e-mail from Nikki letting me know I definitely have a space in the Alley. :shrug:

I'm a little confused as to why your confused, haha. I don't know if you read my post or previous ones.

Including one badge for the artist with the artist alley table would do a great deal of help for artists for obvious reasons. The main one being that it would save us $50(as it looks like registration went up this year which is to be expected) to buy a membership badge which I believe the majority of us don't even need/use since were at our tables 24/7.

I brought taxes into it earlier because I think it's less likely that artists are going to go through the trouble of registering themselves as a sole proprietor/business just to be gone from their table the majority of the time and deal with tax responsibilities later down the road. People keep bringing up the issue that a lot of people aren't at their table, but considering you have to have an EIN to even register, you have to put a little more thought into whether you really want to register or not. I don't know about the rest of the artists but I for one am at my table the majority of the time and to have to pay for a membership badge which I don't even use is a waste of money.
I have been reading all the previous posts. I just wasn't quite sure I was understanding what other people were asking for. Thanks for clarifying the "save $50" part, because that clears up the confusion I had.

I thought I recalled Nikki mentioning that the regular con registration was non-negotiable before, but can't seem to find an exact quote on that despite searching. She did talk about the logistics of having artists who haven't paid for the con attendance itself going to events they haven't paid for, and trying to keep track of who should be allowed to see the rest of the con and who shouldn't. I know I wouldn't want to be restricted to the Alley the entire time I'm at the con (I like going to the Dealer's Room, for one thing, and I know other artists who've gone to Masquerade, to AMVs, to various panels, etc.), which means Nikki would actually have to set aside part of each Alley registration to cover the badges in order to satisfy Registration.

Hopefully the point I was trying to make is clear. :)
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by okapirose »

Kogarashi wrote:I thought I recalled Nikki mentioning that the regular con registration was non-negotiable before, but can't seem to find an exact quote on that despite searching. She did talk about the logistics of having artists who haven't paid for the con attendance itself going to events they haven't paid for, and trying to keep track of who should be allowed to see the rest of the con and who shouldn't. I know I wouldn't want to be restricted to the Alley the entire time I'm at the con (I like going to the Dealer's Room, for one thing, and I know other artists who've gone to Masquerade, to AMVs, to various panels, etc.), which means Nikki would actually have to set aside part of each Alley registration to cover the badges in order to satisfy Registration.
Agreed, I think everyone leaves their table at some point during the con. Whether its a food/bathroom run, to check out what the convention has to offer panel-wise or just a run down to the dealer's room. You need to get up from the table at some point. Sitting and standing in one place for several hours on end isn't good (for you or potential customers). A change of scenery out from behind your table, no matter how brief, does wonders.

Getting badges that restrict artists to just the alley I feel is kinda impossible and just ANOTHER thing that security and the rest would have to keep an eye out for. Adding another badge to the several already in place would just create more chaos and slow up lines (and if you were at AB for Line Con, you know the pain of standing in lines for a badge XD)

While I agree including a con badge with the table would be great and save a nice chunk of cash I could potentially spend either in the dealers room or (more likely) on my fellow artists, no convention this size and over does that to my knowledge. They can't afford it. If they do, the price probably ranges over what the pro row at AB costs.

Another Anime Con in New Hampshire is the only con I know that includes their con badge with their tables and stays very reasonable with their prices. But. It's only a fraction the size of what Anime Boston has become, so they can afford to do what they do.
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by Lizzard »

It was my understanding that a big part of the reason the tables cost as little as they do was that the badge price wasn't included. If AB were to include "free" badges with the purchase of tables, the price of those tables would have to go up to cover the lost revenue, correct? The only other way I see for AB to make up that lost funding would be to cut the budget for services and events elsewhere within the convention. That doesn't seem fair to the rest of the attendees.

I think Tuberat and the others did a pretty good job explaining why AA peeps must have badges, but I'd like to throw an additional consideration into the ring. Even if an artist chooses to remain in the AA for the entire convention, the amount they paid for their badge is not "a waste of money." As I have always understood it, that badge money is how the convention pays for everything. Without it, there would be no convention, and no AA. The money isn't just used for concert equipment and plane tickets for guests; it goes toward the cost of renting all the rooms (including the one in which the AA is held), security, and other basic services without which the AA could not exist.

In other words, badge money isn't something that's only needed from panel attendees and cosplayers. Everyone making use of the convention space has to cover their share. The table cost pays for the table space. The badge cost pays for everything else. At least, that's how I see it.

I think AB has one of the best-run AAs in the nation. But as a (now retired) staffer, I'm probably a little biased!
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Re: Include membership Badges for artists alley

Post by Kogarashi »

Lizzard wrote:It was my understanding that a big part of the reason the tables cost as little as they do was that the badge price wasn't included. If AB were to include "free" badges with the purchase of tables, the price of those tables would have to go up to cover the lost revenue, correct? The only other way I see for AB to make up that lost funding would be to cut the budget for services and events elsewhere within the convention. That doesn't seem fair to the rest of the attendees.
Exactly. I was under the impression that if the attendance badge was included with the table costs, the price would actually go up to cover it, so there wouldn't be any money saved in the end anyway. At the best (at least how I was aware of things), it would save us the hassle of having two bages and needing to wait in two lines to pick them up. Which hasn't been that much of a hassle for me yet (barring Line Con in '08).
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