Regarding 2012 Informal Dance Incidents and Concerns

[gumdropmouse]

Perhaps the dance should be made 18+ after a certain time rather than the entire thing. Maybe have the first two hours all ages and the second two hours 18+?

I feel like it's unfair to "punish" the underage attendees for incidents that the majority of them weren't involved in. Also, a dance isn't really something that I feel needs to be an 18+ event as it's not something inappropriate for all ages. I've always thought that AB did a good job with their panel ratings (hentai dub, dating game, etc) so why should a seemingly innocent event like this be any different?

I imagine it would have to be an all or nothing kinda thing. To make it 18+ for a portion would likely require that the room be completely cleared and everyone re-ID'd once the 18+ time hit and that would be a logistical nightmare and quite the inconvenience those attending the dance

Yeah I can see how that could be a problem :/
I just feel bad for all the underage con-goers. My friends and I are all in our 20s, so either way it won't affect us, but I'm sure the people who are under 18 like the dances as much as we do. It'll be a shame if it really does go to 18+.

[BaffledPrince]

Hrm I have a question that I have never been able to figure out on my own and I figure this might be a good place to bring it up since everyone else is discussing security...

Is there any security watching the lobby where everyone else has to pass through in order to get back to their hotel rooms? I ask this because I don't go to this dance, and every year I have issues with people who are clearly very intoxicated harassing me or someone I know. Like this year, some drunken man wouldn't stop trying to get me to come to his room with him and followed me around the lobby, and proceeded to put his hands on me, and I felt like there was no one around to help?

I realize that things like that aren't your fault of course, but when they happen in a spot you cannot avoid going through I feel like this is some sort of problem? I am not that only one that has had things like this happen. I literally dread the nights that the informal dance happens because of this. Sorry if this is the wrong place to bring this sort of thing up.

Regardless, I am glad to see that everyone is looking into more security measures and such finally! It makes me happy to hear. C:

[CaptainKay]

Perhaps security needs to be informed on some of the rules. When I went to the dance I brought in a bag well over 8", I didn't know at the time that it wasn't allowed. The guy at the door only asked to see my badge, in fact he said that he liked the pirate design on the bag.

[redeyeviperxxx]

Can we also maybe have security keep a good eye on the dance floor? There were people doing things that should remain behind close doors lol

[basharoftheages]

I gotta say, after hearing about the disaster that was this year's ACEN, I have infinitely more respect for how serious and professional the executive staff at AB actually are regarding issues like this. Your commitment to understanding community concerns and actively working for solutions should be a model for other large cons.

[pale swallow]

Since I'm under 18, getting age restrictions would stink
like people said before: having more people watching the dance floor and a ticket system like with the formal dance or masquerade would be nice ^^

[JReckers]

Perhaps the dance should be made 18+ after a certain time rather than the entire thing. Maybe have the first two hours all ages and the second two hours 18+?

I feel like it's unfair to "punish" the underage attendees for incidents that the majority of them weren't involved in. Also, a dance isn't really something that I feel needs to be an 18+ event as it's not something inappropriate for all ages. I've always thought that AB did a good job with their panel ratings (hentai dub, dating game, etc) so why should a seemingly innocent event like this be any different?

I imagine it would have to be an all or nothing kinda thing. To make it 18+ for a portion would likely require that the room be completely cleared and everyone re-ID'd once the 18+ time hit and that would be a logistical nightmare and quite the inconvenience those attending the dance

Peter (b4k4) is correct. We will not split the dance as any sort of age restriction would require the music to stop, ask everyone to leave, line up, and then re-enter. It would totally kill the mood.

Let me be explicit: Age-coding badges is not on the table. It's too easy to swap badges. It's not going to happen. Breathalyzing or pat-down searching is also not on the table. It's not going to happen.

What is on the table is: Age restricting the dance, one or both nights. Banning any sort of bags, with or without a bag check (we would prefer with a bag check, but that's its own challenge.) Moving the Dance possibly into the Hynes one or both nights (Hall D or 3rd floor.) BPD representation in the dance.

More ideas may come onto the table as the year goes on, but any sort of decision regarding what is actually going to happen won't be made until much, much closer to AB2013 (like, in 8-10 months from now.) Rest assured the "new" dance policies will be made public when they are decided, but again, that won't happen probably until March or April next year.

[iamgiselle]

At the time of the last AB i was 16, and while there were a lot of kids making fools of themselves, people over 18 were doing just as "bad" things. Personaly, I was not grinding with a guy in his mid 20"s, I was not half naked. I don't think we can judge someones moral fiber by their age, but making it 16+ would probably keep a bit of the riff raff out. Really, I don't think there's much that can be done besides keeping obviously high or drunk people out....or calling the dance off altogether. But please don't do that. I really like the dance!

[kmcwilliams94]

honestly, everyone should have to take a breathalyzer test and be patted down and bag searched and empty their pockets before entering, to avoid drugs and alcohol.

That would take a very long time to get everyone in, not to mention violate all of your constitutional rights. Why are you kids all so keen on my violating your constitutional rights? I'd really rather wait until someone does something wrong before treating them like they've done something wrong.

then maybe they should do bag searches, just as they do at amusement parks, and only search and breathalyzer test people of suspension of being under an influence. it's just an idea.

[Nessa]

Perhaps the dance should be made 18+ after a certain time rather than the entire thing. Maybe have the first two hours all ages and the second two hours 18+?

I feel like it's unfair to "punish" the underage attendees for incidents that the majority of them weren't involved in. Also, a dance isn't really something that I feel needs to be an 18+ event as it's not something inappropriate for all ages. I've always thought that AB did a good job with their panel ratings (hentai dub, dating game, etc) so why should a seemingly innocent event like this be any different?

I imagine it would have to be an all or nothing kinda thing. To make it 18+ for a portion would likely require that the room be completely cleared and everyone re-ID'd once the 18+ time hit and that would be a logistical nightmare and quite the inconvenience those attending the dance

How about we just have 2 separate dances? You could make bracelets or put "x"es on the back of the older crowds hands and have a symbol for the underage crowd on their hands, like a star or a heart. For the first 2 hours have a dance for all ages and once the 2 hour dance is done, the people who have bracelets or "x"es can go to the 18+ dance, it will be faster and everyone who is of age will already be marked (you could have the 18+ block like you generally do for amv contests, the dating games, and hentai anime) . No one should indeed have to be punished for some foolish actions of a small group. Normally at night everything is usually 18+ anyway. Everyone wins

[yunaofparadise]

How about we just have 2 separate dances? You could make bracelets or put "x"es on the back of the older crowds hands and have a symbol for the underage crowd on their hands, like a star or a heart. For the first 2 hours have a dance for all ages and once the 2 hour dance is done, the people who have bracelets or "x"es can go to the 18+ dance, it will be faster and everyone who is of age will already be marked (you could have the 18+ block like you generally do for amv contests, the dating games, and hentai anime) . No one should indeed have to be punished for some foolish actions of a small group. Normally at night everything is usually 18+ anyway. Everyone wins

How about instead we just have those paper colored wristbands. The ones where you can't take off unless you cut it off with a scissor. Older gets red, younger gets yellow.

[Serephita]

I don't know if this has been suggested in the thread (because honestly I read the first page and didn't take the time to read the second one) but a friend of mine and I had been discussing the informal dance and he suggested not allowing people who only have one day passes in? A majority of people who get a Friday only or Saturday only pass get them just for the informal dance, and sit in their friends hotel rooms getting high, drunk, etc before the dance. I feel like its one thing if you really only can go to a convention for one day, but its an entire different kettle of fish if you get a one day pass just because you want to go to the informal dance for a few hours.

[MomoMiraculous]

I don't know if this has been suggested in the thread (because honestly I read the first page and didn't take the time to read the second one) but a friend of mine and I had been discussing the informal dance and he suggested not allowing people who only have one day passes in? A majority of people who get a Friday only or Saturday only pass get them just for the informal dance, and sit in their friends hotel rooms getting high, drunk, etc before the dance. I feel like its one thing if you really only can go to a convention for one day, but its an entire different kettle of fish if you get a one day pass just because you want to go to the informal dance for a few hours.

That's being discriminatory against people who are genuinely going to the con and for whatever reason, can only go for one day. Why should they be punished for what is a very small minority of people at the informal dance? Honestly, there's nothing that can be done except to take preventative measures such as not allowing bags at all/having a bag check and just better and tighter security.

[arcticfoxx]

Why not do 2 dances a larger dance for all ages that goes until midnight then an 18plus dance in the smaller room that goes on 10-2 like they always do? and then we could do the color bracelets to identify minors. there are already 2 rooms for the dance why not make use of them. its just a thought but it could work especially with a breathalyzer for the all ages dance and a no bag policy.

[Nessa]

How about we just have 2 separate dances? You could make bracelets or put "x"es on the back of the older crowds hands and have a symbol for the underage crowd on their hands, like a star or a heart. For the first 2 hours have a dance for all ages and once the 2 hour dance is done, the people who have bracelets or "x"es can go to the 18+ dance, it will be faster and everyone who is of age will already be marked (you could have the 18+ block like you generally do for amv contests, the dating games, and hentai anime) . No one should indeed have to be punished for some foolish actions of a small group. Normally at night everything is usually 18+ anyway. Everyone wins

How about instead we just have those paper colored wristbands. The ones where you can't take off unless you cut it off with a scissor. Older gets red, younger gets yellow.

Those exact bracelets were the ones I were picturing when I wrote this, I'd be up for that

[Dragonmaster Lou]

I don't want to speak for security staff as they'd know the exact legal issues far better than I would given where I am on the hierarchy, so please consider this the opinion of a concerned fan as opposed to an official staff opinion. Anyway, it's not impossible to wriggle in and out of those wristbands. Both my wife and I have done it and we're not exactly Cirque du Soleil contortionists here. Given that knowledge, I know I wouldn't want to rely on them for age confirmation.

[ErinErin]

I don't want to speak for security staff as they'd know the exact legal issues far better than I would given where I am on the hierarchy, so please consider this the opinion of a concerned fan as opposed to an official staff opinion. Anyway, it's not impossible to wriggle in and out of those wristbands. Both my wife and I have done it and we're not exactly Cirque du Soleil contortionists here. Given that knowledge, I know I wouldn't want to rely on them for age confirmation.

I've seen the paper wristbands fail at other events but I suggest AB look into the plastic wristbands like this

They are impossible to remove without scissors. I attend a 4 day concert festival every year that uses this type of wristband and they hold up well - plus one wristband will last someone the entire weekend. Mark our badges when we pick one up, only issue one to each person over 18, and make sure they are securely fastened on by AB or hotel staff.

[basharoftheages]

I don't want to speak for security staff as they'd know the exact legal issues far better than I would given where I am on the hierarchy, so please consider this the opinion of a concerned fan as opposed to an official staff opinion. Anyway, it's not impossible to wriggle in and out of those wristbands. Both my wife and I have done it and we're not exactly Cirque du Soleil contortionists here. Given that knowledge, I know I wouldn't want to rely on them for age confirmation.

I've seen the paper wristbands fail at other events but I suggest AB look into the plastic wristbands like this

They are impossible to remove without scissors. I attend a 4 day concert festival every year that uses this type of wristband and they hold up well - plus one wristband will last someone the entire weekend. Mark our badges when we pick one up, only issue one to each person over 18, and make sure they are securely fastened on by AB or hotel staff.

Seems like an added hassle for the vast majority of people that don't attend this one event. As a member of the 90% of the con that doesn't involve themselves with this, I'd rather see them cancel the event entirely than have to be forcefully wrist-banded for no reason.

[Genichiro]

I'm against wristbands in all their forms. They're an annoying pain, especially with costumes that cover hands. I can't remove that part of my costume without cutting the wristband, which means every time I want to each something greasy (I don't want to get stuff on my costume), give my wrists some air, or take a shower, I'd have to remove the one I have and go get a new one. Sorry, but they're more of a hassle (and an added cost to AB) than they're worth.

[yunaofparadise]

Hmm, yeah using wristband over costume is a hassle, and the issue I see with marking your hand with a permeant marker is that someone can use their own marker and mark it themselves. Unless you had a special one of a kind permeant marker with a rare color...What about fake tattoos? But the cost would be deadly

[MomoMiraculous]

Hmm, yeah using wristband over costume is a hassle, and the issue I see with marking your hand with a permeant marker is that someone can use their own marker and mark it themselves. Unless you had a special one of a kind permeant marker with a rare color...What about fake tattoos? But the cost would be deadly

You COULD use stamps that are black light reactive. Since you can't see the ink with your bare eyes really, it'd be pretty hard to rub the stamp onto someone else's hand and even if that was tried, if you make it say a word like 'anime' you'd be able to tell pretty easily if someone tried to share their stamp by rubbing it since it would be smudgy as hell and any word you had would not show up right.
However, I still think anything like this would be very time consuming and not to mention costly of both staff and resources that can go towards something else.

[hooyeah]

dident ab one year do this???? what do u guys look at the most ... badge's... have 18+ a different color and your set.

[Aidan2]

Okay since we have now gone full circle on this discussion i'm closing it.

Thank you all for your feedback and ideas we will take them into consideration as we develop our plans for next year.