Anime Boston

Posted: **Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:05 am**

Just curious...

I'm using Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9.0, and I have just about every aspect of the video formatted correctly. My only concern is the framerate. I know it's supposed to be 23.976, but SV won't let me change it. I can't get it off of 29.97.

Would that be a big problem? I know that AB will convert it when they get it, but will the change in framerate make a huge difference in the video, even if it is only by 6.006?

Thank you.

Saffie

Posted: **Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:22 pm**

SaffieB wrote:Just curious...

I'm using Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9.0, and I have just about every aspect of the video formatted correctly. My only concern is the framerate. I know it's supposed to be 23.976, but SV won't let me change it. I can't get it off of 29.97.

Would that be a big problem? I know that AB will convert it when they get it, but will the change in framerate make a huge difference in the video, even if it is only by 6.006?

Thank you.

Saffie

It depends on what your source material is. Are you working with clips that are in 29.97 or 23.976 fps? If your clips are already 23.976, changing the framerate to 23.976 in Vegas is fine, it's actually the best way, because you want the project frame rate to match that of the video source. You can change frame rate through Sony Vegas by going to video properties (it's under the file menu, there's also a little icon for it on the toolbar) and under the video tab there is a field called "Frame Rate" and there should be a drop down menu where you can select 23.976 as the project frame rate.

But if the clips you are working with are in 29.97, that's a different story. In that case I would suggest editing in Sony Vegas in 29.97 fps and rendering the video out, then converting it with another program. There is always going to be a little bit of inaccuracy with the timing when you do this. The most popular program for doing this is TMPGEnc, but I believe that program costs money. When I convert I prefer using Zarx264gui, though I can't recall the script for changing fps at the top of my head, I'll see if I can find it for you.

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:22 pm**

I'm not sure if last year's valid formats were all the valid BluRay specs, or just the progressive ones. That said, nothing has been posted in terms of rules for this year yet. 29.97 (interlaced) is a valid BluRay frame rate, but I don't recommend using it.

As to your source, if you're editing footage that is 29.97 you either have an older DVD source made directly for TV then backported to film, or you never IVTC'd it. I'm guessing the latter. Assuming you're done with the video, doing anything with it now would be difficult. It would desync quite a bit (as you stated, about 6 frames... per second - that's 21 seconds of slew by the end of a 3.5 minute video).

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:34 pm**

BasharOfTheAges wrote:That said, nothing has been posted in terms of rules for this year yet.

Aside from these rules: http://www.animeboston.com/events/amv_rules/ which were posted a couple months ago. Unless you meant something else...

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:43 pm**

Faceman wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:That said, nothing has been posted in terms of rules for this year yet.
Aside from these rules: http://www.animeboston.com/events/amv_rules/ which were posted a couple months ago. Unless you meant something else...

what the. Magic I tell you. Magic.

EDIT - to op: only 720p (23.976) is valid by that, though the next sentence sorta implies that it need not be the case.

Related tangentially - http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... 64gui.html should be the link to the latest version of zarxGUI.

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:10 pm**

Can you give me that link? I'm far too lazy to find it myself, but I will update it.

Edit: Thanks Bashar. Should be all set now.

Posted: **Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:28 pm**

This link also needs to be updated: The Anime Boston AMV Contest is rated PG-13. As such, all entries will be expected to follow the official MPAA ratings guidelines (http://www.mpaa.org/FlmRat_Ratings.asp)...

To this: The Anime Boston AMV Contest is rated PG-13. As such, all entries will be expected to follow the official MPAA ratings guidelines (http://www.mpaa.org/ratings/what-each-rating-means)...

And those 2012 contest rules being posted totally slipped by me, too... Good to know this year is h.264, hopefully this means an end to worrying about the mysterious MPEG-2 squishing effect which all my con encodes have suffered!! *desperately crosses fingers*

Posted: **Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:57 pm**

Faceman wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:That said, nothing has been posted in terms of rules for this year yet.
Aside from these rules: http://www.animeboston.com/events/amv_rules/ which were posted a couple months ago. Unless you meant something else...

Their posting was never announced, here or on the main page. You may want to do that.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:49 pm**

BasharOfTheAges wrote:I'm not sure if last year's valid formats were all the valid BluRay specs, or just the progressive ones. That said, nothing has been posted in terms of rules for this year yet. 29.97 (interlaced) is a valid BluRay frame rate, but I don't recommend using it.

As to your source, if you're editing footage that is 29.97 you either have an older DVD source made directly for TV then backported to film, or you never IVTC'd it. I'm guessing the latter. Assuming you're done with the video, doing anything with it now would be difficult. It would desync quite a bit (as you stated, about 6 frames... per second - that's 21 seconds of slew by the end of a 3.5 minute video).

Just to be a bit clearer with my predicament, I did render it earlier with the 29.76 framerate, and it came out perfectly. When I try to render it on SV:

I can get it to 1280x720
I can encode it to H.264
I plan on sending it via electronic submission

But as soon as I try to change the Template with the 23.976 framerate, it says, "The template you selected is not valid with the current project settings. It has been removed from the template list". It's starting to get on my nerves, actually.

(I also just noticed that in the drop down menu, the 29.97 is NTSC, and the 23.976 is IVTC {which I see you mentioned above} {I'm not very clear with the acronyms}, so I don't quite understand how they match up.)

I was also a bit confused when I was looking at Zarx264gui and AviSynth. I don't know if I'm missing something, or if I'm just stupid. Or if I'm just too lazy to do the extra research, and find out how it works. (I've only been working with AMVs for less than a year, and only with SV for a few months- I was using WMM before that.)

I feel like an idiot asking all of these questions, but I want to make sure I understand what I"m doing, so if I plan on entering next year, I'll have a better grasp of the concepts. (I still plan on entering this year, but I don't know how far I'll get if I can't figure this out. If everything is off by 21 seconds, then the whole video will look like a joke.)

(By the way BasharOfTheAges, I loved your AMV last year!)

Thanks for all of your help, guys! If you have any more advice, I'd be more than willing to listen!

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:46 am**

SaffieB wrote:I downloaded my videos from online sites (Youtube and watchcartoonsonline.com mostly- just to find episodes without subtitles).

Careful, don't say that on these forums, even if it's true. Here be dragons.

SaffieB wrote: When I try to render it on SV:

I can get it to 1280x720
I can encode it to H.264
I plan on sending it via electronic submission

But as soon as I try to change the Template with the 23.976 framerate, it says, "The template you selected is not valid with the current project settings. It has been removed from the template list". It's starting to get on my nerves, actually.

Could you take a screenshot of this error and the project settings that you have so I can see what is going on exactly?

SaffieB wrote: I was also a bit confused when I was looking at Zarx264gui and AviSynth. I don't know if I'm missing something, or if I'm just stupid. Or if I'm just too lazy to do the extra research, and find out how it works. (I've only been working with AMVs for less than a year, and only with SV for a few months- I was using WMM before that.)

AviSynth is a scripting language. If you have it downloaded you can open it in notepad and just a few lines will do the trick, as long as you make sure to save the file with the extension .avs. I mostly just use it for deinterlacing. When importing a video into Zarx264gui for conversion the most basic lines your script needs to have are

Code: Select all

AVISource("C:\your_filepath_here.avi")
converttoyv12()

Save this as some_filename.avs. Then in Zarx264gui open that script, and you should be able to convert the video. Again, I can't seem to find the line for converting the frame rate--can anyone help me out with that?

Alternatively, you could use FormatFactory, conversion freeware which is pretty straightforward and doesn't involve any scripting. It might throw the timing off a tad, but if you're editing with a 29.97 fps source, then it's best to export from Sony Vegas in that same framerate and convert with an outside program. Depending on how precise your timing is, you may have to try converting with different programs to see which one works best.

SaffieB wrote:I feel like an idiot asking all of these questions, but I want to make sure I understand what I"m doing, so if I plan on entering next year, I'll have a better grasp of the concepts. (I still plan on entering this year, but I don't know how far I'll get if I can't figure this out. If everything is off by 21 seconds, then the whole video will look like a joke.)

Don't worry, everyone starts somewhere. ^^ And it's definitely worth entering for the experience.

And just so you know, 23.976 fps is what you get when you rip and deinterlace DVDs for your footage. It makes things a lot easier to deal with when you edit and for final formatting. PM me if you need a DVD ripping guide.

Posted: **Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:57 pm**

Sorry it took so long to respond, my computer is going nuts. I lost all of my videos and clips (thankfully, I was able to save the one I want to submit...)

Here are my settings (my personalized template):

file:///C:/Users/Bloom/Desktop/Capture.JPG

As soon as I change the framerate to 23.976, this pops up:

file:///C:/Users/Bloom/Desktop/Template.JPG

And it goes back to the default template...

I still don't understand why in the drop down menu, the 29.97 is NTSC, and the 23.976 is IVTC, but the rules ask for NTSC. How does that set up when the menu doesn't show them as compatible?

Also, how much do you trust FormatFactory? I don't want to download something that can mess up my computer more than it already is...

Posted: **Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:36 am**

I'm having the EXACT same problem. I used an older-ish anime, framerate 29.97 then noticed the rules state 23. I got the same error messages, played around with the settings, and finally got the video to render at 23 fps...and the results were very disappointing. Anytime there was movement, there was interlacing. I need a better solution, but can't find a direct explanation to "convert 29.97 into 23" and I've never used Avisynth (even so, I can't find a direct solution to my specific problem). I don't remember ever being in this situation before, but then again, my ancient mind may be slipping...

Posted: **Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:55 pm**

Well, the real solution is to actually fix the frame rate on the video before you start editing, when you prep your footage. Anything you do after the fact will screw up your sync.

Just setting your project to 23.976 when your footage isn't 23.976 isn't doing it right; you need to IVTC the footage and set your project files up correctly to begin with (23.976 fps, progressive frames, etc.)

Posted: **Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:16 pm**

BasharOfTheAges wrote:Well, the real solution is to actually fix the frame rate on the video before you start editing, when you prep your footage. Anything you do after the fact will screw up your sync.

Just setting your project to 23.976 when your footage isn't 23.976 isn't doing it right; you need to IVTC the footage and set your project files up correctly to begin with (23.976 fps, progressive frames, etc.)

So...this is the nice way of saying "do your entire video over again", isn't it?

Posted: **Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:23 pm**

mikami wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:Well, the real solution is to actually fix the frame rate on the video before you start editing, when you prep your footage. Anything you do after the fact will screw up your sync.

Just setting your project to 23.976 when your footage isn't 23.976 isn't doing it right; you need to IVTC the footage and set your project files up correctly to begin with (23.976 fps, progressive frames, etc.)
So...this is the nice way of saying "do your entire video over again", isn't it?

Either that, or submit it as is and hope that the tech specs aren't really taken into account when it it comes to cutting time. I'd bet a third or more of the entries received won't be 23.976.

If your NLE supports it, you could also try re-ripping a re-prepping your footage to the correct frame rate, saving off your source folder, replacing the footage in the main folder with the new stuff, re-opening the project, and crossing your fingers. This assumes you rip entire DVDs to big lossless files or can otherwise re-create your episode-sized chunks exactly.

Posted: **Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:29 pm**

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
mikami wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:Well, the real solution is to actually fix the frame rate on the video before you start editing, when you prep your footage. Anything you do after the fact will screw up your sync.

Just setting your project to 23.976 when your footage isn't 23.976 isn't doing it right; you need to IVTC the footage and set your project files up correctly to begin with (23.976 fps, progressive frames, etc.)
So...this is the nice way of saying "do your entire video over again", isn't it?
Either that, or submit it as is and hope that the tech specs aren't really taken into account when it it comes to cutting time. I'd bet a third or more of the entries received won't be 23.976.

If your NLE supports it, you could also try re-ripping a re-prepping your footage to the correct frame rate, saving off your source folder, replacing the footage in the main folder with the new stuff, re-opening the project, and crossing your fingers. This assumes you rip entire DVDs to big lossless files or can otherwise re-create your episode-sized chunks exactly.

*sigh* It just feels so dirty, not following the rules...

Posted: **Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:33 pm**

I agree, but when you don't really have any other options...you gotta do what you gotta do. If it goes bad, try again next year. More experience may be a good idea...good luck!

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:08 pm**

chaobunny wrote:PM me if you need a DVD ripping guide.

I would love that guide. I PMed you, but didn't get a response.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:14 pm**

SaffieB wrote:
chaobunny wrote:PM me if you need a DVD ripping guide.
I would love that guide. I PMed you, but didn't get a response.

Sorry, I've been busy! Sending now. =)

Posted: **Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:35 am**

Missed it before in this thread, but I figured it was worth pointing out, if you're not going to be doing anything in the arena of post-processing your video (pre-processing is the way to go for cleanup after all), then the newer versions of ZarxGUI let you just drag and drop your files onto it and it'll load up everything for you without having to even bother making up an avs file.

Posted: **Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:00 pm**

Hey, guys! It's been awhile. How're you all doing?

Unfortunately, I'm having trouble again. Hope you don't mind helping me out...again.

My main problem right now is with AviSynth. So far, I can (with MANY HUGE thanks to chaobunny for helping me get this far):

-download my videos
-save the file as a .d2v
-make it into a script, changing it to an .avs

(these are the scripts I've been working with: http://www.tumblr.com/blog/saffieb)

This is where the pain-in-the-butt-part comes in. When I try to open it in VirtualDub, this error message pops up:

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/saffieb (This is an actual example of one of my failed attempts at opening VDub)

The thing that really pisses me off, though, is that I was able to open it once before! I had to stop in the middle of saving the file because I'd forgotten to clip it first. Now I can't do it again.

Any ideas as to why this is happening?

Another thing that is confusing me is the fact that my SV seems to do whatever the heck it wants to do. The whole point of my using AviSynth is to convert my videos from .vob to .avi so I can open them on SV. So why does it open some .vob files anyway? (I'm not complaining that it does that - that's how I was able to create my video for AB 2013 - but I don't understand why it's doing it at all.)

Also, instead of using AviSynth, I tried converting my videos using VLC, but the conversions come out crappy - the quality just plain sucks - is there any way to fix that?

Just one more question and I'll leave you alone (for a little while...) Does anyone know why my SV froze twice when I tried to open an MP4 file (I also tried converting this with VLC, but it came out worse than the .vob files)? I have (what I think is) an epic AMV concept, but I need that file to make it work.

Thanks so much!

Posted: **Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:29 am**

I can't see your links (they require a login), but the usual error if something worked before and isn't working now is that the path to the files has changed. They need to be in the same folder on the same drive letter as when you started. If you're working with an external drive, the drive letters can frequently change between times that you've plugged it in.

To fix it, you can just reindex the .vob files with DGIndex and overwrite the old .d2v, then update your .avs file to point to the new .d2v file. And remember, you still need the .vob files until you have all your .avis! (I've deleted my .vobs before converting before, which caused a big headache as I smacked my head into my desk for making such a boneheaded mistake.

)

If you can post the text of the error here (or a link that doesn't require a login), I can try to troubleshoot more accurately.

VLC's converters are designed for reducing the filesize to stream a video file across a network, not to generate master source files for editing, so you're better off not even using that method at all.

Posted: **Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:01 am**

Here are the scripts I was given to use

"mpeg2source("C:/Your file path.d2v")
Telecide(order=1, guide=1)
Decimate(cycle=5, mode=2)
ConvertToRGB32()

mpeg2source("C:/Your file path.d2v")
TFM(order=-1, field=-1, mode=5, PP=7, slow=2)
tdecimate()
ConvertToRGB32()"

Then, when I try to enter the script into the VirtualDub, this error pops up:

"Avisynth open failure:
Script error: there is no function named "mpeg2Source"
(C:\User\User\Desktop\Videos\AT Opening.avs, line 1)"

[This is just an example; I do use an external drive, but when I tried the script above, I had moved the file to my Video folder on my PC in the hopes that it would solve the problem. But, as you can see, that didn't work either...]

What I've been doing is trying to start from scratch, as in deleting the .d2v files completely and redoing them, but that hasn't been working either.

One of the uses of AviSynth is to convert files to .avi so they are more accessible, right? If I can't get it to work, are there any other conversion software programs you suggest I use?

Don't worry, I've kept all of my .vob files- I even bought a 2TB drive to hold them all!

I've been debating whether or not to just uninstall and reinstall all of the AMVapp programs (I vaguely recall some of the programs saying that they couldn't be downloaded properly, but I just ignored it at the time...), but I'm afraid that would mess up the programs that were downloaded properly. (I've found another decrypting software, DVDFab, Do you know anything about it?)

And I'm still confused as to why the MP4 file froze my SV...

Another thing that's confounding me (sorry to put all of this on you

) is that when I'm using the decrypter I can download, say, episode 1, 2, 3, and 5, but not 4. It keeps doing about 20 "retries", but it won't load. Do you know why that is?

Thanks! I really appreciate you taking the time to help me.

Posted: **Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:23 pm**

Okay, that's a pretty clear plugin error. AviSynth can't find the plugin that it needs to read the d2v files. In the folder you have your DGIndex program, there should be a DGDecode.dll file. You'll need to put a copy of the file in your AviSynth plugin directory, which is usually C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins.

That's usually a symptom that your AviSynth install has gotten corrupted, so you may want to uninstall and reinstall it.

For your issue with ripping, DVD Decrypter is old and hasn't been updated in many years, so it can't handle the copy protections a lot of newer disks use. You'll want to use a different ripper for those disks; my personal choice is DVDFab. It's technically a 30-day trial, but the ripping portion stays available and free after the 30 days, and only the transcoding features (which you don't want to be using anyway) expire. As a bonus, it decrypts Blu-Rays as well.

Posted: **Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:57 pm**

Great...corrupted...so, should I uninstall all of the AMVapp programs, or just AviSynth and DVD Decrypter?

If I put that mp4 file through AviSynth, would it work the same as if it were a .vob file?

Posted: **Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:47 pm**

Uninstall everything, then make sure you've got the least old version of the AMVApp, which is at http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... mvapp.html

Some of the components of the AMVApp have gotten rather out of date, so from that pack, only install AviSynth, DGIndex, AvsPmod, VirtualDub, AVSPluginPack, Huffyuv, and Lagarith. You may even want to get the newest AviSynth instead of the one in the App as well, but that's not critical.

You'll also want:

the latest UTVideo (hands down the best lossless codec available, available here, click the Windows (exe) link)
the latest ffmpegsource (to load non-DVD footage) - Download from here, extract with 7Zip or WinRar, and put all the files from it into your plugins directory
DVDFab HD Decrypter

To put an mp4 through AviSynth, you'll want to use the script:

Code: Select all

ffvideosource("filename")

It'll take a little while to load the first time you open the script because it has to scan the whole file, but after that, it'll load much faster as long as you don't delete the .ffindex file it creates in the same folder as your video file.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:10 am**

Yes, I finally got it to work! Thank you so much- now I just need to find the time to use it.

Would you mind taking a look at my previous entries? I want to know what I can work on in general to get better...

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:55 am**

SaffieB wrote:Yes, I finally got it to work! Thank you so much- now I just need to find the time to use it.

Would you mind taking a look at my previous entries? I want to know what I can work on in general to get better...

Glad to hear it's working for you now. I'm currently racing the AWA deadline, so I can't take a look at them quite yet, but I'll see about getting you a critique after the deadline.

Posted: **Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:32 pm**

That's fine, I'll post the links here now so I don't forget to do it later. Please get around to it when you can.

2012 entry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuS_Pc7iozs

2011 entry: http://www.veoh.com/watch/v30343970WtwJXdYw

Thanks so much again.

Posted: **Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:59 pm**

Hey! How did AWA go?

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:29 pm**

Sorry, how do I go about putting the .mp4 through AviSynth again?

I tried something different; I converted the .mp4 to an .avi- the audio works, but not the video...help again please, if you don't mind.

Thanks.

Anime Boston

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