Pro-Yayku

[bosoxjoe5]

I just submitted a request to do a panel on Japanese baseball. I think would be fun and in an hour many topics can be addressed.

Does any one else have interest in this?

[Cemberse]

Im just curious what is the difference between Japanese and American baseball.

Im not really a sports fan at all, but I would assume that they would be more or less the same thing, wouldnt they? What exactly would this panel be about?

[dokool]

[quote=Cemberse]Im just curious what is the difference between Japanese and American baseball.

Im not really a sports fan at all, but I would assume that they would be more or less the same thing, wouldnt they? What exactly would this panel be about?[/quote]

I've been to a couple games (and in fact I show pics from them at my Student's Guide to Tokyo panel). The major differences are cultural (the traditions of the team and their fans are very different from what we're used to in the US - different kinds of cheers, different food, etc), and philosophical (in terms of gameplay - much more conservative than in the US) - go read You've Gotta Have Wa for more on this.

[basharoftheages]

Merchandise pricing is also weird... 5,000 yen for a hat, and 5,000 yen for a jersey. That totally caught me off guard.

[Cemberse]

Again, not a huge baseball fan, but Ive been to a couple Red Sox games and what not.

I might be interested to check this out, it seems to me it could be pretty interesting.

[dokool]

[quote=Cemberse]Again, not a huge baseball fan, but Ive been to a couple Red Sox games and what not.

I might be interested to check this out, it seems to me it could be pretty interesting. [/quote]

It is - much more so than American baseball, in my experience (and the tickets are cheaper, too!). It's somewhat of a college-like atmosphere when you add the bands and the traditions - for example, Yakult Swallows fans have a song they sing every time their team scores a run and wave these miniature umbrellas as they sing it. If a player on the home team scores a home run, a "mascot girl" is there to greet him at home plate with a giant stuffed animal of the team mascot. The music that the Hanshin Tigers' support band plays is based on rhythms and melodies from traditional Japanese music. Very neat stuff.

[bosoxjoe5]

Also they way the game is played is much different. The starting rotation is 6 pitcher deep and they have an off day once a week. So pretty a pretty pitches only once a week, but even only pitching once and roughly 30 less games a season pitcher in Japan pitch the same or more innings as American Pitchers, meaning a lot of complete games.

Also the newer parks no so much but the older parks were much smaller. This was allowed for more homers. 55 home runs for only a 136 games is a lot of home run per at bats.

[dokool]

[quote=bosoxjoe5]Also the newer parks no so much but the older parks were much smaller. This was allowed for more homers. 55 home runs for only a 136 games is a lot of home run per at bats.
[/quote]

I haven't seen many of the newer parks, the only three stadiums I've been to are Yokohama Stadium (Hanshin Tigers vs. Yokohama Baystars), Jingu Stadium (Orix Buffaloes vs. Yakult Swallows), and the Tokyo Dome (MLB vs. NPB All Stars).

The last one in particular was interesting because, well, there were MLB players, and the Tokyo Dome is not a big place, so I'm sitting in the outfield thinking "...are they really going to pitch to MLB players in what's essentially a college field?" True to form the MLB had two homers or so.

Now that I'm back in Tokyo I look forward to going to more games - I'd like to catch a Hanshin/Giants matchup in particular if I can get tickets, but I'd also more generally like to see different stadiums and different fan traditions. Also, the train I take to school is a Seibu line, so I see tons of ads for the Lions every day...

[Mister Dai]

I would be totally happy to volunteer some time on discussion for this. Although most of my experience is from 2000 to 2003, I have attended a few games in Japan, and watched dozens more. Even got m'selt a cool Hanshin happi coat. There are plenty of differences between baseball here and there (and best left discussed for the panel).

[dokool]

[quote=Mister Dai]I would be totally happy to volunteer some time on discussion for this. Although most of my experience is from 2000 to 2003, I have attended a few games in Japan, and watched dozens more. Even got m'selt a cool Hanshin happi coat. There are plenty of differences between baseball here and there (and best left discussed for the panel).[/quote]

Were you the guy wearing the Hanshin jersey during the Shimamoto autograph signing in '06? :thumbup:

I'd like to get my hands on some better Hanshin swag this year, but I'm still not sure which team I should throw my support behind. I live on the Seibu-Shinjuku line so I get barraged with Lions ads every day now...

Oh, and I'd love to help out with this panel too - I just booked my TokyoBoston ticket so I'll definitely be at the con. Hopefully I can bring some pics from recent games and some new swag.

[Mister Dai]

[quote=dokool]Were you the guy wearing the Hanshin jersey during the Shimamoto autograph signing in '06? :thumbup:

I'd like to get my hands on some better Hanshin swag this year, but I'm still not sure which team I should throw my support behind. I live on the Seibu-Shinjuku line so I get barraged with Lions ads every day now...[/quote]

I still say that Hanshin deserves my support, despite the big Matsuzaka signing. After all, the Sox also signed a pitcher from Nippon Ham. Why divide ourselves through allegiances to teams, when Hanshin shows the true love of baseball in the shadow of Yankees-like dominance from the Giants?

And yes, that was me in the jersey. Couldn't tell if Shimamoto was a Hanshin fan or not.

[dokool]

[quote=Mister Dai][quote=dokool]Were you the guy wearing the Hanshin jersey during the Shimamoto autograph signing in '06? :thumbup:

I'd like to get my hands on some better Hanshin swag this year, but I'm still not sure which team I should throw my support behind. I live on the Seibu-Shinjuku line so I get barraged with Lions ads every day now...[/quote]

I still say that Hanshin deserves my support, despite the big Matsuzaka signing. After all, the Sox also signed a pitcher from Nippon Ham. Why divide ourselves through allegiances to teams, when Hanshin shows the true love of baseball in the shadow of Yankees-like dominance from the Giants?

And yes, that was me in the jersey. Couldn't tell if Shimamoto was a Hanshin fan or not.
[/quote]

See, it's because of the Hanshin-Red Sox parallel that I hesitate (because I'm a tragic Phillies fan, plus I find the Red Sox bandwagon to be... well, yeah), but at the same time, you are right - when I saw my first yakyu game (Hanshin 5 Yokohama 2, 9.11.04), I had a blast - we snuck into the Hanshin cheering section and the fans there were awesome, particularly the trumpet/drum corps and the flag-wavers.

I'm thinking having one team to support in the Central (Hanshin) and another to support in the Pacific (Seibu) is the best way to go. That way I get to learn about the entire league.

Either way though, you are right - no matter what team we support, we must always hate the Yankees, i mean, Giants :p

[DocWatson]

I attending the panel, and would like to offer some feedback.

I'm not much of a sports fan (I attended because of my love of sports anime), but I did enjoy the discussion. I thought that the panel could have been a little better organized, but there's always next year. ^_^ Perhaps you might try for a 90 minute panel (later in the evening so there's more time available)?

I liked the clips of 1970s baseball anime—I was unaware of several of them—as well as the inclusion of the various manga. IMHO next year you should include (if possible) a clip of Kyojin no Hoshi / Star of the Giants (the first sports anime) and Princess Nine (a personal favorite which you sadly neglected to mention ;_; ). Another film to mention is Mr. Baseball, the 1992 movie starring Tom Selleck and Ken Takakura. Additionally, the end of the Osaka episode of Compiler makes much of the Col. Sanders/Randy Bass legend; ADV released it on VHS, and included an explanation at the end of the episode. It unfortunately has not been re-released in English on DVD (though a DVD was solicited, then "delayed indefinitely").

Keg girls were mentioned, but a further investigation might be in order.

Also, you might include a selection of books on the subject:

Books on Japanese Baseball:

• Fitts, Robert K. Remembering Japanese Baseball: An Oral History of the Game. Carbondale, Illinois: Southern Illinois University Press, 2005. ISBN 0809326299, ISBN 0809326302.

• Graczyk, Wayne. 2007 Japan Pro Baseball Fan Handbook & Media Guide. Tokyo: Japan Pro Baseball Fan Handbook & Media Guide, 2007. ISBN 4901178815. Annual since 1976.

• Johnson, Daniel E. Japanese Baseball: A Statistical Handbook. Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland & Company, 1999 (reprinted 2006). ISBN 078640678X, ISBN 0786428414.

• Maitland, Brian. Japanese Baseball: A Fan's Guide. North Clarendon, Vermont: Tuttle Publishing, 1991. ISBN 0804816808.

• Miike, Fred N. Baseball Mad Japan. ?: 1955.

• Obojski, Robert. The Rise of Japanese Baseball Power. Radnor, Pa.: Chilton Book Co., 1975. ISBN 0801960614.

• Whiting, Robert. The Chrysanthemum and the Bat: Baseball Samurai Style. New York: Dodd, Mead, 1977. ISBN 0396073174.

• Whiting, Robert. You Gotta Have Wa. New York: Macmillan, 1989. ISBN 0026276615, ISBN 067972947X.

Biographies and Players:

• Bauer, Carlos. The All-Time Japanese Baseball Register: The Complete Statistical Record of All the Great Japanese & American Players. San Diego, Calif.: Baseball Press Books, 2000. ISBN 189339204X.

• Cromartie, Warren, and Robert Whiting. Slugging It Out in Japan: An American Major Leaguer in the Tokyo Outfield. New York: Kodansha International, 1991. ISBN 4770014236, ISBN 0451170768 (reprint: Signet, 1992).

• Fitts, Robert, and Gary Engel. Japanese Baseball SuperStars: Hall of Fame and Meikyukai Profiles. Lauderhill, Flor.: Prestige Collectibles, 2001. ISBN ?. Spiral bound.

• Oh, Sadaharu, and David Falkner. Sadaharu Oh: A Zen Way Of Baseball. New York: Times Books, 1984. ISBN 0812911091, ISBN 0394741056.

• Stanka, Jean, and Joe Stanka. Coping with Clouters, Culture and Crisis. Ouda-cho, Uda-gun, Nara Pref., Japan; Wilmington, Del.: Dawn Press, 1987. ISBN 0933704577.


Books about International Baseball (Including Japan):

• Gmelch, George (Editor). Baseball without Borders: The International Pastime. Lincoln, Nebraska: Bison Books, 2006. ISBN 0803271255.

• Lewis, Michael, and William Londo, eds. Studies in Asia Series III, 3, no. 2 (Fall 2006). "Special Issue: Baseball and Besuboru In Japan and The U.S."

• McNeil, William F. Baseball's Other All-Stars: The Greatest Players from the Negro Leagues, the Japanese Leagues, the Mexican League, and the Pre-1960 Winter Leagues in Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland & Company, 2000. ISBN 0786407840.

• McNeil, William F. The King of Swat: An Analysis of Baseball's Home Run Hitters from the Major, Minor, Negro and Japanese Leagues. Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland & Company, 1997. ISBN 0786403624.

• Reaves, Joseph A. Taking in a Game: A History of Baseball in Asia. Lincoln, Nebraska: Bison Books, 2002. ISBN 0803290012.


Japanese Baseball Cards:

• Engel, Gary. Japanese Baseball Card Checklist & Price Guide, 6th edition. Lauderhill, Flor.: Prestige Collectibles, 2005. ISBN ?.

• Gall, John, Gary Engel, and Steven Heller. Sayonara Home Run!: The Art of the Japanese Baseball Card. San Francisco: Chronicle Books, 2006. ISBN 0811849457.


Japanese Players in MLB:

• Rains, Rob. Baseball Samurais: Ichiro Suzuki And The Asian Invasion. New York: St. Martin's Paperbacks, 2001. ISBN 0312982577.

• Whiting, Robert. The Meaning of Ichiro: The New Wave from Japan and the Transformation of Our National Pastime. Warner Books, 2004; retitled for the 2005 paperback to ''The Samurai Way of Baseball: The New Wave from Japan and the Transformation of Our National Pastime[/i]. ISBN 0446531928, ISBN 0446694037.

Specific Players:

• Christopher, Matt, and Glenn Stout. At the Plate With... Ichiro. New York: Little, Brown, 2003. ISBN 0316136794.

• Dougherty, Terri. Ichiro Suzuki. ?: Checkerboard Books, 2003. ISBN 1591974836.

• Komatsu, Narumi, and Philip Gabriel. Ichiro on Ichiro: Conversations with Narumi Komatsu. Seattle: Sasquatch Books, 2004. ISBN 1570614318.

• Leigh, David S. Ichiro Suzuki. Minneapolis: Twenty-First Century Books, 2004. ISBN 0822517922.

• Levin, Judith. Ichiro Suzuki. New York: Chelsea House Publications, 2007. ISBN 0791094405.

• Rappoport, Ken. Super Sports Star Ichiro Suzuki. Berkeley Heights, N.J.: Enslow Elementary, 2004. ISBN 0766021378.

• Rosenthal, Jim. Ichiro's Art of Playing Baseball: Learn How to Hit, Steal, and Field Like an All-Star. New York: St. Martin's Griffin, 2006. ISBN 0312358318.

• Savage, Jeff. Ichiro Suzuki. Minneapolis: Lerner Publications, 2003. ISBN 0822513447.

• Savage, Jeff. Ichiro Suzuki, revised ed. Minneapolis: Lerner Publications, 2007. ISBN 0822572664.

• Shields, David. "Baseball Is Just Baseball": The Understated Ichiro: An Unauthorized Collection Compiled by David Shields. Seattle: TNI Books, 2001. ISBN 0967870313.

• Stewart, Mark. Ichiro Suzuki: Best in the West. Minneapolis: Millbrook Press, 2002. ISBN 0761326162.


• Fagen, Herb. Nomo: The Inside Story on Baseball's Hottest Sensation. Friday Harbor, Wash.: Turtleback Books, 1996. ISBN 060609699X, ISBN 0451188845.

• Rodman, Edmon J. Nomo: The Tornado Who Took America by Storm. Los Angeles: Lowell House, 1996. ISBN 1565653947.

:::::

Sources:

• Jim Allen's Japanese Baseball Page, especially the English Bibliography on Japanese Baseball

• YakyuShop: "YakyuShop is THE source for Japanese baseball merchandise, with the largest range of jerseys and caps on the Internet."

• RobsJapaneseCards.com: "The World's Largest Japanese Baseball Card Web Site"

• Prestige Collectibles: Japanese Baseball Cards and Memorabilia

=====

Yes, I went very crazy—I love research. A good portion of the above is now part of the Wikipedia article on "Japanese pro baseball".

Overall, good panel!

[dokool]

[quote=DocWatson]I attending the panel, and would like to offer some feedback.[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback, and for the insane amount of research!

I agree that we probably could have expanded to 90 minutes, but given that it was the first year, that sort of thing is always a learning experience. As far as organization, I fully admit that things were a little by-the-seat-of-our-pants, as the first time all of us were able to get together in person was on Saturday, right before the panel. Now that we know what works and what doesn't work, next year will hopefully go a lot smoother.

Thanks for attending!

[DocWatson]

[quote=dokool][quote=DocWatson]I attending the panel, and would like to offer some feedback.[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback, and for the insane amount of research![/quote]
You're welcome!

[DocWatson]

One more resource: P.O.V. - "Kokoyakyu: High School Baseball".

[DocWatson]

Will you be doing a pro yakyuu panel again this year, and what about the Hanshin Tigers/Red Sox and Yomiuri Giants/Red Sox games during the con?

MLB.com: "Red Sox, A's Japan-bound in 2008"

MLB.com: 2008 Red Sox Schedule: March 2008

[dokool]

[quote=DocWatson]Will you be doing a pro yakyuu panel again this year, and what about the Hanshin Tigers/Red Sox and Yomiuri Giants/Red Sox games during the con?[/quote]


Yes, the panel's on for 6:30 on Saturday evening before the Masq, although truth be told with the con so early this year I've been a bit lax in preparation We should be fine, though! There's certainly a lot to discuss this year as the MLB opens the season in Japan and Daisuke returns home in addition to all of the fascinating aspects of domestic Japanese baseball.

Based on the schedules, the Tigers/Red Sox and Giants/Athletics games on Saturday will have been played by the time our panel begins. I'm hoping that there will be some clips on YouTube/ESPN/etc that we can show.

I've actually considered buying a scalped ticket to the game on the 26th but as I have no interest in either team I'll have to wait till NPB starts in a week or so :p

[jmagic87]

this look sgreat cant wait plus the clips from redsoxs games will be a plus i got to see dice-k pitch both his 1st game in fenway park and his 2007 alcs game 7 win they were both great i cant wait to see what he came from any info on the Seibu Lions


i so so wish i could go tothe red soxs games and or somehow get my hands on dice-ks Seibu Lions cards (sorry card collect here xD)

[dokool]

[quote=jmagic87]this look sgreat cant wait plus the clips from redsoxs games will be a plus i got to see dice-k pitch both his 1st game in fenway park and his 2007 alcs game 7 win they were both great i cant wait to see what he came from any info on the Seibu Lions


i so so wish i could go tothe red soxs games and or somehow get my hands on dice-ks Seibu Lions cards (sorry card collect here xD)[/quote]

Oddly enough baseball cards aren't as big here as they are in the US, not by a long shot.

I actually live on the Seibu Shinjuku line, so I see ads for the Lions (I think they're actually calling them the Saitama Lions this year) every day now. A friend of mine lives in Tokorozawa so I'm hoping to go to their stadium more often.

[jmagic87]

that is sweet i so wish that he was playing his old team on the japan trip that would be cool and yea us cards are alot crazyer like this one of dice-k i jsut got back a lil bit ago

http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/j ... an0940.jpg

[dokool]

[quote=jmagic87]that is sweet i so wish that he was playing his old team on the japan trip that would be cool and yea us cards are alot crazyer like this one of dice-k i jsut got back a lil bit ago

http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/j ... an0940.jpg[/quote]

There's a reason for that, actually - the Pacific League starts play over a week before the Central League, so the Lions are actually playing their opening series against the Orix Buffaloes that weekend.

Plus the Giants and Tigers are the two big-money teams in the league, so it was kind of expected.