NOTE TO STAFF: Request for more stringent dance regulations

[lordshamus]

Oh you wacky kids and your cray-zeee theories.

We're not supposed to talk about it, but that's only because the NEAS is a respectable, srsbsns nonprofit organization, and they need to message everything in a way that it reflects an unbiased and true account of what happened that still protects the people involved and reflects well on the convention as well as our partners. While they discuss how best to do that, i will make them nervous by talking about it anyway. Ha ha.

So yeah, nobody died. There wasn't a big drug bust. The amount of drinking and drugs done inside the dance was greatly exaggerated. No more people than usual were passed out. There was no secret keg of lemonade. There was no 13 year old ne'er-do-well. The dance hasn't been cancelled for next year. The DJ staff did a great job helping us. Dance staff did a great job helping us. The hotel staff did a great job helping us. Some of the dance rules will probably be revised a little to make things like this less likely to happen again. It is likely some of the revisions will be in line with the stuff you're all already guessing. There is no missing piece to this that is going to blow your minds when you learn it; when you all find out why the dance closed early, you're probably going to be like, "Oh, that's unfortunate, but not especially shocking or interesting." Until a couple very out-of-the-ordinary but not especially compelling incidents occurred in rapid succession, neither of which were directly related to the dance, the dance was going pretty much the same as it always does. I had people both in and out of uniform on the inside as well as the outside. You would, in fact, be shocked to know exactly how few people it takes to ruin a great event like the informal dance. Any changes we make will be in line with the ultimate goal of presenting the paid attendees with the most awesome experience possible.

Hopefully this will curtail some of the speculation about the Great Mystery of the Early-Ending Dance.

[President Aria]

Hopefully this will curtail some of the speculation about the Great Mystery of the Early-Ending Dance.

Pfft, who are people gonna believe? The head of security, or a friend of a friend who knows someone who was THERE man. I'm sure you can see who the more credible source is, since you're part of the conspiracy!

[midnightsiren182]

I heard it was Ra-Ra-Rasputin.

[Bowler4Ever]

I was at the dance on Saturday night when it all went down. My friend and I were 5th and 6th in line when it got shut down (30 minutes in line wasted, YAY!). It was rather crazy, though. Over at the elevators, we did see cops and EMTs bringing a stretcher out towards the exit. About 10 cops were around the line, and staff was restraining about 5 delinquents acting like absolute morons trying to have a massive fight right next to us. Was not pleasant whatsoever.

18+? Absolutely.
In future events, I believe BPD should monitor the line and also give pat-downs to EVERYONE going in to make sure no one is smuggling in small amounts of booze or drugs; and whoever smells of alcohol gets an instant breathalyzer test on the spot. Can never be too careful people!

[basharoftheages]

Uh... Any Idea what a sizable BPD detail to do all of that costs? It isn't cheap. I'd hate to see AB having to sink tens of thousands of dollars into paying overtime for an entire squad of cops when there's probably a middle ground somewhere.

[lordshamus]

In future events, I believe BPD should monitor the line and also give pat-downs to EVERYONE going in to make sure no one is smuggling in small amounts of booze or drugs; and whoever smells of alcohol gets an instant breathalyzer test on the spot. Can never be too careful people!

I will not be suggesting that everyone going into the dance be frisked by police. That would be a violation of your fourth amendment rights, and at the end of the day, it wouldn't even stop anything. What most people don't realize (possibly because it's fun to think there are massive drug-conspiracies going on juts under my nose) is that the vast majority of drugs and alcohol that make it into the dance are "smuggled" in the cleverest fashion possible; inside human stomachs. Pregaming is not something I can really mitigate, other than by wheeling out people who are clearly wrecked. But they're a small minority of the attendees, and they don't own the event, you do. The most powerful leverage against unacceptable behavior is still to make it socially stigmatizing. If you see someone doing something that is clearly not cool, tell them it's not cool. When I was a little Shamus, and people I know went to "informal dances", they added an extra "R" to PLURR to stand for responsibility, and if the community continues to feel responsible to each other and behave in a socially responsible fashion, it protects the dance for many many years to come without me having to lame it up with all kinds of new rules and so forth. Fun fact; I hate banning things and making new rules. I just want people to have a good time and be safe.

[Bowler4Ever]

In future events, I believe BPD should monitor the line and also give pat-downs to EVERYONE going in to make sure no one is smuggling in small amounts of booze or drugs; and whoever smells of alcohol gets an instant breathalyzer test on the spot. Can never be too careful people!

I will not be suggesting that everyone going into the dance be frisked by police. That would be a violation of your fourth amendment rights, and at the end of the day, it wouldn't even stop anything. What most people don't realize (possibly because it's fun to think there are massive drug-conspiracies going on juts under my nose) is that the vast majority of drugs and alcohol that make it into the dance are "smuggled" in the cleverest fashion possible; inside human stomachs. Pregaming is not something I can really mitigate, other than by wheeling out people who are clearly wrecked. But they're a small minority of the attendees, and they don't own the event, you do. The most powerful leverage against unacceptable behavior is still to make it socially stigmatizing. If you see someone doing something that is clearly not cool, tell them it's not cool. When I was a little Shamus, and people I know went to "informal dances", they added an extra "R" to PLURR to stand for responsibility, and if the community continues to feel responsible to each other and behave in a socially responsible fashion, it protects the dance for many many years to come without me having to lame it up with all kinds of new rules and so forth. Fun fact; I hate banning things and making new rules. I just want people to have a good time and be safe.

That is very true, wasn't thinking about that, to be honest. Note that this was my first AB, so please bear with me as I have nothing to really compare from other years. No hate or arguments intended

[Master of NERV]

Speaking as someone who is just a few weeks shy of turning 18, I totally support making the dance 18+.
...
I could also suggest a few other things that could perhaps make the con better. You could make the age limit to get in without a parent 15 or 16, instead of 13. 13 year olds are not even in high school yet; the majority have very little idea of what the world is like. Its far too young to be going to an event like AB without someone older to guide them. I dont think it would be neccesary to make the age as high as 18, but 16 or so would probably do a lot of good.
...
This might all sound like a stupid teenage rant, but I just thought it might be insightful to hear the perspective of a younger yet responsible congoer.

Speaking as someone old enough to by lyraparry11's father, I must concur with every suggestion I've quoted above. As I see it, the last thing I'd call this post is "a stupid teenage rant"; in fact, it reflects an impressive maturity.

Even before this incident, I've discussed the age issue with a number of adult attendees, the youngest of them in their late 20s. We are all of one mind: 13 is too young for anyone to be left unattended at any convention; 16 would be my personal choice if I had to make one.

Further, there is a clear need for badges that identify minors, and part of me is a little surprised that it hasn't been implemented in the past.

Now, I can just imagine the conversations at a thousand dinner tables if these restrictions were to be put in place...

"Mom, Dad, I really wanna go to Anime Boston, but a parent has to go with me this year."
"Why? We didn't last year."
"Well, umm..." (fidgeting commences)
"Will we have to pay to get in ourselves even if we're only watching you?"
"Uh...yeah..." (fidgeting ceases, replaced by outright squirming)
"Okay, out with it--what's going on? What are you not telling us?"

Do I sympathize? Hell, no! As I see it, this is where parents need to step in. And if they do, Anime Boston may be a little more quiet, restrained, and well-behaved for the trouble.

[RawrInc]

I will not be suggesting that everyone going into the dance be frisked by police. That would be a violation of your fourth amendment rights,

You don't have the right on private property just so you know. I can back that up with references if you'd like. Also as far as liability goes you'd be covered if a police officer was doing it. They frisk people at high school dances for safety and preventative measures, so it would be easily possible. Male officer for males, female officer for females. But that's the last bit I've got in this thread.

[thevoiceonthewind]

Hiya guys! This was my second con, and my first attempt to go to the informal dance. I'm 18, but I saw kids there that couldn't have been more than 16 in line. I didn't end up going in because after standing in that blasted line for like 45 minutes, and then getting cut in line by a group of people who almost stabbed my friend in the eye with their stupid cosplay sword prop,-their excuse was "Sorry, my friend's a little drunk!"- I was just not in the mood to go inside. I'm not much of a dancer anyway, but I thought it'd be a fun way to end my con, since I wouldn't be going for very long Sunday.

Anyway! I was in the lobby of the Sheraton waiting for my ride when I saw a stretcher come in. I didn't even know it was for something AB related until my friend told me about it Tuesday. And I ended up not going, so all kinds of crazy rumors are all I know right now. But I do know, the only thing I'm actually going to believe as far as what happened is going to be what's released from AB staff, because frankly, this feels like a game of telephone. "Oh wow, did you hear, some guys did drugs at the dance Saturday night" turns into "OMG, I HEARD SOMEONE OD'D AND DIED" super quick.

But I think a system of 18+ would work best for the dance, at least on Saturday, when supposedly everything is wilder. Doing an ID check might take longer, but I think it'd be best, because minors really shouldn't be out in Boston at that time anyway. Also, maybe people shouldn't be allowed to bring things with them, in order to avoid theft. I've heard stories about people stealing poopy at the dances. So while it might be inconvenient for people, things like backpacks and stuff shouldn't be brought in. Leaving them on the floor outside just screams "HEY STEAL FROM ME" in my opinion. Maybe having a couple of cops IN the dance would be a good idea? Like how some halls require a cop to be at all Sweet Sixteens to avoid crazy shenanigans from exploding.

Also, has anyone else heard the story about people from PAX going into the Sheraton, getting an extra room key to someones room, and then robbing it blind, like TVs and everything?

That just sounds so damn fake. First, how the heck were they able to supposedly get this TV out of the hotel with no one noticing? Actually, don't they require an ID check at the desk to get a room key??

Whatever, until AB releases a statement, I'm going to listen to Shamus here, and say this is being crazy blown out of proportion.

tl;dr : rumors exaggerate everything, dances should be 18+ on Saturday and people get their property stolen if they leave it in the hallway.

[meerkat]

Oh you wacky kids and your cray-zeee theories.

We're not supposed to talk about it, but that's only because the NEAS is a respectable, srsbsns nonprofit organization, and they need to message everything in a way that it reflects an unbiased and true account of what happened that still protects the people involved and reflects well on the convention as well as our partners. While they discuss how best to do that, i will make them nervous by talking about it anyway. Ha ha.

So yeah, nobody died. There wasn't a big drug bust. The amount of drinking and drugs done inside the dance was greatly exaggerated. No more people than usual were passed out. There was no secret keg of lemonade. There was no 13 year old ne'er-do-well. The dance hasn't been cancelled for next year. The DJ staff did a great job helping us. Dance staff did a great job helping us. The hotel staff did a great job helping us. Some of the dance rules will probably be revised a little to make things like this less likely to happen again. It is likely some of the revisions will be in line with the stuff you're all already guessing. There is no missing piece to this that is going to blow your minds when you learn it; when you all find out why the dance closed early, you're probably going to be like, "Oh, that's unfortunate, but not especially shocking or interesting." Until a couple very out-of-the-ordinary but not especially compelling incidents occurred in rapid succession, neither of which were directly related to the dance, the dance was going pretty much the same as it always does. I had people both in and out of uniform on the inside as well as the outside. You would, in fact, be shocked to know exactly how few people it takes to ruin a great event like the informal dance. Any changes we make will be in line with the ultimate goal of presenting the paid attendees with the most awesome experience possible.

Hopefully this will curtail some of the speculation about the Great Mystery of the Early-Ending Dance.

See, my problem with you is not a personal problem, it is that since you are one of the staff members, you are absolutely 100% NOT going to say anything that might damage the reputation of the hynes or of the convention. Even if something very bad DID happen , you wouldn't tell us. I know you're trying to curtail the rumors, but anyone with half a brain knows that if anything truly -bad- happened, AB is not going to validate it with a public statement.

[basharoftheages]

Oh you wacky kids and your cray-zeee theories.

We're not supposed to talk about it, but that's only because the NEAS is a respectable, srsbsns nonprofit organization, and they need to message everything in a way that it reflects an unbiased and true account of what happened that still protects the people involved and reflects well on the convention as well as our partners. While they discuss how best to do that, i will make them nervous by talking about it anyway. Ha ha.

So yeah, nobody died. There wasn't a big drug bust. The amount of drinking and drugs done inside the dance was greatly exaggerated. No more people than usual were passed out. There was no secret keg of lemonade. There was no 13 year old ne'er-do-well. The dance hasn't been cancelled for next year. The DJ staff did a great job helping us. Dance staff did a great job helping us. The hotel staff did a great job helping us. Some of the dance rules will probably be revised a little to make things like this less likely to happen again. It is likely some of the revisions will be in line with the stuff you're all already guessing. There is no missing piece to this that is going to blow your minds when you learn it; when you all find out why the dance closed early, you're probably going to be like, "Oh, that's unfortunate, but not especially shocking or interesting." Until a couple very out-of-the-ordinary but not especially compelling incidents occurred in rapid succession, neither of which were directly related to the dance, the dance was going pretty much the same as it always does. I had people both in and out of uniform on the inside as well as the outside. You would, in fact, be shocked to know exactly how few people it takes to ruin a great event like the informal dance. Any changes we make will be in line with the ultimate goal of presenting the paid attendees with the most awesome experience possible.

Hopefully this will curtail some of the speculation about the Great Mystery of the Early-Ending Dance.

See, my problem with you is not a personal problem, it is that since you are one of the staff members, you are absolutely 100% NOT going to say anything that might damage the reputation of the hynes or of the convention. Even if something very bad DID happen (and some of your staff are not so good at shutting the frak up), you wouldn't tell us. I know you're trying to curtail the rumors, but anyone with half a brain knows that if anything truly -bad- happened, AB is not going to validate it with a public statement.

That's some mighty fine libel you're spouting there.

[ThulZathoth]

Wasn't able to make the dance this year, but based on past experience and what I've heard from friends who attended the dance this year I think having an 18+ dance and badges/bracelets is a great idea.
Might also be a good idea to have a sort of rest area outside the dance room with water available. I can't recall if there's ever been anything like this in past years, but dehydrated dancers seem to be a problem every year. Much moreso than intoxicated attendees.

As far as the issues with drugs go only real answer I can see is having security remove any visibly intoxicated attendees since sobriety checks at the door seems a little overboard IMO. Perhaps hire some Vigilants of Stendarr to keep an eye out for any Sanguine worship next year, haha.

[Aidan2]

See, my problem with you is not a personal problem, it is that since you are one of the staff members, you are absolutely 100% NOT going to say anything that might damage the reputation of the hynes or of the convention. Even if something very bad DID happen (and some of your staff are not so good at shutting the frack up), you wouldn't tell us. I know you're trying to curtail the rumors, but anyone with half a brain knows that if anything truly -bad- happened, AB is not going to validate it with a public statement.

So your problem with a figure of authority is the fact that we are a figure of authority and thus will always lie in order to save our own skin? Really? You have that little faith in us as an organization that has always been as up front as possible with every minute detail even those that do harm us and our partners?

Shamus is not one to flower the truth, and what he said is the crux of the whole thing saturday night. There was no madness or columbian drug cartels or other crazy ness. What it boils down to is 3 or 4 incidents involving attendees that obviously had extended themselves beyond their tolerances and those 5 or 6 people ruined what was a good time for many into a black eye on our organization.

So when we say we will tell you and make it known and what it will mean to our event, we will. until that time stop trying to imply things and fact into something that is currently a hotbed of rumors that can potentially effect our event and organization to a level you can not even fathom.

We are not Lying to you, we are not organizing some grand conspiracy. We are trying to figure out 3 things.

1. What and who actually initiated the incident or incidents.
2. What the Actual outcomes of these incidents were.
3. What this means to our operations and programming.

Its the last stage that is going to take time, since we have to work WITH the MCCA, the Sheraton, the BPD, Boston EMS and untold other organizations that are not necessarily very quick to offer either advice or alternatives. We as a staff have to decide with we want to do with the fallout from this incident. Let us be clear here Anime Boston and our parent organization are a 501c3, registered not for profit educational organization dedicated to the advancement and understanding of Japanese pop culture and history. As such we have to be VERY careful how we tread and how we are perceived not only by our members but also both the state and federal government.

So bear with us as we get through not only the incidents but also the ramifications that can and will result.

[eidna]

There was no madness or columbian drug cartels or other crazy ness.

I, for one, am disappointed.

[meerkat]

Oh you wacky kids and your cray-zeee theories.

We're not supposed to talk about it, but that's only because the NEAS is a respectable, srsbsns nonprofit organization, and they need to message everything in a way that it reflects an unbiased and true account of what happened that still protects the people involved and reflects well on the convention as well as our partners. While they discuss how best to do that, i will make them nervous by talking about it anyway. Ha ha.

So yeah, nobody died. There wasn't a big drug bust. The amount of drinking and drugs done inside the dance was greatly exaggerated. No more people than usual were passed out. There was no secret keg of lemonade. There was no 13 year old ne'er-do-well. The dance hasn't been cancelled for next year. The DJ staff did a great job helping us. Dance staff did a great job helping us. The hotel staff did a great job helping us. Some of the dance rules will probably be revised a little to make things like this less likely to happen again. It is likely some of the revisions will be in line with the stuff you're all already guessing. There is no missing piece to this that is going to blow your minds when you learn it; when you all find out why the dance closed early, you're probably going to be like, "Oh, that's unfortunate, but not especially shocking or interesting." Until a couple very out-of-the-ordinary but not especially compelling incidents occurred in rapid succession, neither of which were directly related to the dance, the dance was going pretty much the same as it always does. I had people both in and out of uniform on the inside as well as the outside. You would, in fact, be shocked to know exactly how few people it takes to ruin a great event like the informal dance. Any changes we make will be in line with the ultimate goal of presenting the paid attendees with the most awesome experience possible.

Hopefully this will curtail some of the speculation about the Great Mystery of the Early-Ending Dance.

See, my problem with you is not a personal problem, it is that since you are one of the staff members, you are absolutely 100% NOT going to say anything that might damage the reputation of the hynes or of the convention. Even if something very bad DID happen you wouldn't tell us. I know you're trying to curtail the rumors, but anyone with half a brain knows that if anything truly -bad- happened, AB is not going to validate it with a public statement.

That's some mighty fine libel you're spouting there.

Except it's not libel. Do I know what happened exactly? No. Do I know there are a lot of rumors flying around that probably aren't true? Yes. Do I doubt even for a second that the chief of security would withhold information if he thought it would damage his or the convention's reputation? No. For all I know it WAS just 3 or 4 events in rapid succession--but that's happened in previous years, too, so why then would the dance not have been shut down in previous years? Point is that there has been a lack of oversight here, the same poopy has been allowed to go on year after year, and anime boston is -very- lucky that A, something worse did not happen, and that B, local media/lawyers did not jump on it. The dance has had a bad reputation for a long time now--and I'm surprised that more people haven't noticed that.

[lordshamus]

Do I know what happened exactly? No. Do I know there are a lot of rumors flying around that probably aren't true? Yes. Do I doubt even for a second that the chief of security would withhold information if he thought it would damage his or the convention's reputation? No.

Okay, you got me. It was Ancient Aliens. Ancient Aliens ruined the dance, and the Mayans predicted it in Pre-Columbian knot-sequence codices.

[midnightsiren182]

Do I know what happened exactly? No. Do I know there are a lot of rumors flying around that probably aren't true? Yes. Do I doubt even for a second that the chief of security would withhold information if he thought it would damage his or the convention's reputation? No.

Okay, you got me. It was Ancient Aliens. Ancient Aliens ruined the dance, and the Mayans predicted it in Pre-Columbian knot-sequence codices.

[JReckers]

Uh... Any Idea what a sizable BPD detail to do all of that costs? It isn't cheap. I'd hate to see AB having to sink tens of thousands of dollars into paying overtime for an entire squad of cops when there's probably a middle ground somewhere.

I do! I do, in fact, know exactly what it costs and although it's not cheap, it's not ridiculous. It is not 'tens of thousands.' If it needs to happen, it will, and won't really affect any other budget item in a significant way.

[marikotoeii]

There was a wave of underage vomit. It became a tripping hazard.

"Evacuate the dancefloor!"

My .02...

I am a bit weirded out by the large amount of underage flesh that is on display at this event....

I am thinking that for a LIABILITY reason, going 18 plus would be a good way to go...



Also, Shamus is incapable of lies. His heart is full of candy and flowers. He attacks security with +10 righteousness

[meerkat]

Do I know what happened exactly? No. Do I know there are a lot of rumors flying around that probably aren't true? Yes. Do I doubt even for a second that the chief of security would withhold information if he thought it would damage his or the convention's reputation? No.

Okay, you got me. It was Ancient Aliens. Ancient Aliens ruined the dance, and the Mayans predicted it in Pre-Columbian knot-sequence codices.

I expected a liiiiittle more professionalism out of the chief of security than mocking an attendee for a legitimate concern.

[AliceTanzer]

Do I know what happened exactly? No. Do I know there are a lot of rumors flying around that probably aren't true? Yes. Do I doubt even for a second that the chief of security would withhold information if he thought it would damage his or the convention's reputation? No.

Okay, you got me. It was Ancient Aliens. Ancient Aliens ruined the dance, and the Mayans predicted it in Pre-Columbian knot-sequence codices.

I expected a liiiiittle more professionalism out of the chief of security than mocking an attendee for a legitimate concern.

Staff has tried serious answers, staff has tried funny answers. We've told attendees what we can tell them with what we know. In the next few weeks executive staff will be having meetings with the hotel, the BPD and whomever else needs to be there. Then we can further discuss it with the attendees.

Clearly there was some drama at the dance, but since the entire convention didn't get shut down, and we have no lawsuits coming in our direction, it clearly wasn't as bad as the rumors say.
There were some people who drank too much, some people who got into fights, and some people who did some drugs. These things happen at every con everywhere, it just so happens they happened ALL AT THE SAME TIME, at the same time that the BPD was already there.

[Faceman]

Do I know what happened exactly? No. Do I know there are a lot of rumors flying around that probably aren't true? Yes. Do I doubt even for a second that the chief of security would withhold information if he thought it would damage his or the convention's reputation? No.

Okay, you got me. It was Ancient Aliens. Ancient Aliens ruined the dance, and the Mayans predicted it in Pre-Columbian knot-sequence codices.

I expected a liiiiittle more professionalism out of the chief of security than mocking an attendee for a legitimate concern.

Here's the thing, our Chief of Security told you what happened. Other staff have chimed in too, including the Director of Technical Operations. Both of them make a habit of shooting straight, and not piling on the BS. Yes, there are some things we can't say yet, but that's because we don't know 100% completely without a shadow of a doubt. We have pretty good ideas, but until we go over the events with the Sheraton, Boston PD, and other parties, we will not make a detailed announcement about it.

It's not because we have something to hide, but because when we do talk about it, we want to be correct. We don't want to have to change our story because we got something wrong.

You've been given this answer several times, but you seem to think we're hiding something, according to your post:

See, my problem with you is not a personal problem, it is that since you are one of the staff members, you are absolutely 100% NOT going to say anything that might damage the reputation of the hynes or of the convention. Even if something very bad DID happen , you wouldn't tell us. I know you're trying to curtail the rumors, but anyone with half a brain knows that if anything truly -bad- happened, AB is not going to validate it with a public statement.

So, Anime Boston staff are the only ones who will tell you what exactly happened, because this is our event and we're the mouthpiece. But you're not going to believe us because we're staff. So no matter what we say, you won't be satisfied, because you're going to always think there's something we're not telling you.

This conversation has gone in circles for the last page. I'm not going to let conspiracy theories and baseless accusations continue the course of this discussion. When we have something concrete to announce, we will. Until then, you'll have to take what the staff said at face value, because:
1) it's the truth
B) it's all we're going to say on it for now
iii) if this continues in another thread, there will be some bannings.

Locking this thread.